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Squirrel mania

20 replies

Elibean · 09/01/2012 15:31

Mouse, at 9 months and after 3 months of being re-homed with us, has great recall. Really good. He'll come back from balls, kids, bushes, dogs (unless they're pups his age and old pals, then it takes a few minutes), and even - sometimes - food.

But squirrels are his Thing. Prey drive is growing, he pounced on and half-killed a rat in the brambles near the station the other day, and he's obsessed with squirrels - be they in the woods or at the bottom of our garden.

Should I attempt any training in relation to small furry creatures? Or is the drive too strong? He's lab x with possibly staffy/beagle or pointer, maybe a bit of lurcher.....umm....he's a lab x Confused

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fruitshootsandheaves · 09/01/2012 15:58

I'm sure you could train him out of it. But it would probably take some intensive 'gundog type' training. i.e using a pen stocked with little furries that they are taught to leave.
I've been tempted to do this with my Springer but have been too lazy to get off my arse and do anything about it happy to leave him untrained as he is!

Elibean · 09/01/2012 18:12

Yes, have to admit half the time I quite appreciate the squirrel-chasing as it gets him exercised more when out Blush

Its more that the prey drive seems to be extending to all things small and furry/moving: cats, for example. Or dd2's furry trim on her hood Hmm

He used to be best friends with a kitten, when he was in foster care, nowadays I think any self-respecting kitten would run a mile!

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minimuu · 09/01/2012 20:24

You need to stop it and do so soon! This behaviour will fuel itself and can become an issue, it may move to cats, birds, other things. The book you need is "Stop" How to control predatory chasing in dogs by David Ryan

link here

Elibean · 10/01/2012 10:47

Thanks, thats exactly what I was looking for Smile

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Elibean · 11/01/2012 11:09

Another thanks, minimuu - book arrived, and I've read it. Lots of very useful info and tips.

One question - in case you have any ideas - when he talks about working on 'retrieve', he sort of assumes the dog will hold on to retrieved toy, and that the challenge is getting him to drop it. In Mouse's case, he just drops it as soon as he's caught it - not interested at all in holding on to it!

I have one possible idea, which is a puppy Kong with a few treats in, so he has to bring it back to me to re-load....what do you reckon??

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Elibean · 11/01/2012 12:17

Shock Mouse (dog) caught a squirrel on his walk with dh just now. Squirrel did get away, but was bitten - and Mouse was bitten back.

This is getting serious now - my last dog loved to chase squirrels, but never caught any (he did corner a baby once, but backed away in embarrassment - didn't know what to do with it). Mouse is a lot faster, probably has some lurcher in him.

I've started implementing all the tips in 'Stop' and dh and I have agreed to use puppy kong to try and get Mouse to play retrive games instead of chase.

Poor squirrel Sad

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PurpleFrog · 11/01/2012 13:02

Maybe the bite will put him off squirrels? Fingers crossed.

minimuu · 11/01/2012 13:13

I would try and work on retrieve games anyway - as you can redirect the chase. Yep the kong is a good idea or you could use someone running with a tuggy.

Elibean · 11/01/2012 16:19

Tried kong, stuffed, unstuffed, tuggy....he's just not really interested Sad

Running would probably do it, though. Lordy me, time to get fit Blush

He's doing really well on general obedience, though. I can get him to sit and stay for longer and longer, and 'leave it' is his best command....onwards!

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Quodlibet · 11/01/2012 16:29

A very good reason to train this out of him is that when your dog goes deaf going after a furry it is forever going to be in danger of running across a road/into the wrong field/over a cliff. It's terrifying when they run across a road in pursuit of a fox or squirrel, something my old lurcher did on a couple of occasions. We never quite managed to get a handle on it, only solution then is walking in places you know they can't be harmed if they do a bolt, which is really dull.

minimuu · 11/01/2012 16:38

Ok this may seem like a problem but it is a great training opportunity and also a fantastic opportunity to become more interesting to Mouse.

At the moment although you are his provider of food exercise love etc you may not be giving him the buzz he gets from chasing. However if you can show him that you are way more fun than chasing a squirrel you have got this sorted.

P46 of the book talks about teaching a dog to retrieve. I would in a small space stick to something easy like a tennis ball and you the DC,s play with this ball in a very very excited manner - he is not allowed it at all. Later on get the ball out again and throw it the minute he gets near to the ball throw another one in a really excited manner (keep this in a small room) you then run back to the first ball etc. So what should be happening is (the neighbours think you are bonkers) but your dog is realising what fun the tennis ball is. Build on this DO not let him have the ball at any other time.

When he will run out to the ball you can start to work on the hold.

Elibean · 12/01/2012 16:24

Great tips, thanks. Can't do with DC, as he will jump up when excited and they are small - scratches them when he jumps up. But could do with dh (the neighbours already think he is barking Grin).

Did loads of recall with treats when out today, every time he 'pointed' at a squirrel or bird - he nearly always came back, because I caught him early, as it were. Once in full chase, forget it.

He is also playing too roughly with some smaller dogs - not sure if its because he's just grown and too big to 'mouth' a toy poodle, say, or if he's just too boisterous or what Confused. What I mean is, one small dog squealed a few times when they were playing today - though she kept coming back for more, so clearly not awful! Her owner wasn't happy though, so I called him off. He does stop as soon as I call him, which is good. Definitely playing - not trying to hurt her, but possibly displaying 'I'm boss, I'm bigger/older'??

Should I do anything with all of that too? Sorry to ask so many ??s, you should be charging me Blush

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MissBetsyTrotwood · 12/01/2012 16:41

minimuu in your expert opinion might it be too late for my retired, very keen ex racer to train from that book? (Greyhound, large)

I am reconciled to having him on the lead for the rest of his life but would like to give him as many chances as possible to be off lead.

Can I teach a middle aged dog new tricks? Grin

(Sorry to thread jack.)

Elibean · 12/01/2012 16:43

jack away, Miss Betsy, chasers need company Smile

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MissBetsyTrotwood · 12/01/2012 16:43

Also, we've been clicker training 'Lie down' with him for... about 4 weeks. Every day. And it's not had a lot of success so far.

I AM willing to persevere. He's a lovely, very very manageable dog but he does love a squirrel chase.

MissBetsyTrotwood · 12/01/2012 16:44

Hee hee thanks Elibean !

minimuu · 12/01/2012 19:12

Elibean good point about him jumping at DC's - don't want that!

It is excellent that you can recall him just before the chase - keep an eye on that and always jump in before and you are halfway there.

If he does go off on a chase do not recall him. When you see him coming back to you (eventually) start to call him and give him a great treat and make a fuss of him (even though you are feeling grumpy and fed up) The coming back to you MUST always be the best thing ever.

IF he does catch something and has it in his mouth, totally ignore him, do not call him, do not try to get it off him. He will not want to give it up so don't even try however what he will learn is that you are not bothered and come back anyway. People that try to remove the prey from the dogs will just get dogs that stay out of reach and never get the dogs back.

I had a client with a lurcher who used to catch rabbits, he would come back with them in his mouth , the owner and I totally ignored him, he carried it for a while trotted alongside us, then got fed up put the rabbit down and it hopped away happilyGrin They don't always hop away! If she had turned it into a chase game he would never return.

Re playing with other dogs - people often differ on this but I don't encourage mine to play a lot with other dogs. (I want all their good times to come from me, for various reasons, makes training easy and the bond stronger between my dogs and me). They can play a bit but I want it to be constructive play! I don't let my DC's run around screaming and yelling for the hell of it, and I don't encourage my dogs to do the same.

So chasing, running with other dogs is fine but when it gets to the bundling in and neck biting etc I will step in and stop it.

So when Mouse meets a dog, don't always let him play, sometimes walk on by, other times let his sniff and then call him and walk off with a great game or treat. You again need to watch his body language you will see his behaviour change before he gets too rough. It may be very subtle, he may slightly freeze, his ears will change position, he may go down into a bow, his tail may alter position, he may slightly turn away. When you recognise the signal, do a cheery recall and walk in the opposite direction.

Betsy yes you can teach old dogs new tricks - in a sense as he is a chaser you have a very strong chase drive you just need to redirect it. Don't stop it as it is such a stress reliever for dogs but direct it onto something that does not mind being chased. Give the book a try - start it on a long line. He may take a while to learn new behaviour but if you are as stubborn as him it can be done.

Elibean · 13/01/2012 14:09

Minimuu, I wish you lived in SW London Smile though probably just as well for you that you don't Grin

Very helpful - I'm doing a lot of that, but am so unsure of myself and it helps enormously just knowing I'm on the right track. Also, re the playing, that makes total sense - the running around playing is always fine, its the rough-and-tumble mouthing at each other stuff that is getting out of hand at times with littler dogs - I guess it was ok when Mouse was younger (very pup like) but now he's a gangly teen its not the same. I shall stop play when it gets like that. Thankfully, he no longer wants to play with every dog he passes - more interested in squirrels possibly, or just chooses his known mates and younger dogs!

We had a new problem this morning, when dd2 went to 'say goodbye before school' which meant standing next to Mouse stroking his back, but he was on his 'other bed' - not the one he sleeps in (his crate) but a dog mat we keep out for him to lie on as we have wooden floors. He jumped up and barked/snapped at her face, though didn't make contact - just a warning. She's 5, same size as him - so was shocked and very upset. She never disturbs him in his crate, but we all stroke him on his mat so I thought it was ok - he's never reacted before.

Here's the question: I've moved his 'mat' into the study, and will make it out of bounds to dd - but is that enough? Should I be doing anything else with him, or with dd? She is never alone with him...

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Elibean · 13/01/2012 14:09

ps he wasn't asleep at the time dd stroked him, either - he was sitting up looking out of the window.

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Elibean · 31/01/2012 12:05

Bumping for Solo Smile

Some great stuff below including rabbit-obsessed lurcher story!

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