Help. Moral dilemma with dog.

[feesh]

A really nice couple I have met a few times when dog walking have been told they have to get out of the country and return to England ASAP. The problem is, they have a 2 year-old Hungarian Viszla and due to the new quarantine laws in the UK, he can't go back to England for another 3 months.

This has been the hardest bit about all of this mess for them - they are pretty devastated about having to leave him behind, but they don't have any choice :(

We have an 11-month old dog and she is really coming on leaps and bounds. She is generally very well behaved (except she gets excited around other dogs) and her confidence is really growing.

We wanted to get her a doggie friend eventually, preferably an older male of similar size to her.

Our friend's Viszla fits the bill exactly, in this respect, plus he is one of the few dogs we meet who genuinely gets in really well with ours (she has a habit of over excitedly playing with some other dogs, to the point they get fed up with her). Her and the Viszla are perfectly matched in terms of size and playfulness.

So, I've offered to look after him for them for the 3 months until he can be sent back to the UK.....

I wanted a trial 2 nights first, so he's here staying with us at the minute. He's been here for about 16 hours so far and I am finding it REALLY hard.

I was awake at 4am thinking how I can let them down gently, even though I really want to help them :(

I don't know what to do and would really appreciate some advice - do I work through the issues, or would it be better for my dog in the long run if I didn't take this Viszla on?

(There don't seem to be any bullet points, so I shall use biscuits instead!)

He is INCREDIBLY nervy about every noise and bang, and I am worried that will rub off on my dog - I can't even get him to come to me or walk past the babygate because it makes a creaky sound. My dog used to be a bit like this, so I don't want her reverting to it.

He is terrified of the car since he had a car accident.

My dog shows some food and chew guarding tendencies around other dogs. The Viszla is on a whole other scale though - we were told to 'spray him with the water bottle' if we need to retrieve anything off him, so he is understandably incredibly possessive as a result of this 'training'. He snarls at us if he has something he shouldn't, such as one of my dog's Kongs which he found under the sofa. I can't give either of them ANY chews to keep them busy as all hell breaks loose - I gave them 3 pigs' ears last night but they both wolfed down their first one like I have never seen and then were about to fight over the 3rd, except my dog got their quicker and downed it in one! (She normally spends hours on a pig's ear...)

He peed in the kitchen last night, despite a walk before bed. I know this is understandable, but this is a woman at the end of her tether already!!!

They wrestle CONSTANTLY and it's wearing me out. Just when one has had enough and starts to settle, the other jumps on them again. I have tried following Kikopup's default settle around other dogs video, but neither of them show any interest in me or food when they have eachother.

All HELL broke loose at breakfast time. My dog is normally fed her raw diet while shut in her crate in the kitchen. So I shut her in there this morning with half a chicken and took Viszla off to the office for his kibble meal. My dog SCREAMED the house down, it was horrendous. There wasn't even a break in it for me to be able to go back in the kitchen to her. This upset the Viszla but he did eventually manage to eat his breakfast. When he went back into the kitchen my dog went nuts at him from inside her crate. I removed Viszla from the kitchen, let my dog out and removed the uneaten chicken from her crate. She then attacked him every time he came near the kitchen and won't let him in there. I have closed the kitchen door now and moved their water into the lounge, but they need to sleep in the kitchen together tonight and I don't know how I am going to rectify this situation now.

I'll stop now, there are other issues (such as the mess!), but these are the main ones.

There is a part of me that can't be bothered to deal with all these issues (as I found puppyhood very stressful and I am only just starting to enjoy her now). Having another dog around means that she completely ignores me now (focus has always been her weak point) and her recall goes to pot when he is around.

I don't think I can take 3 months of this. Do you think these issues are workable and do you think it would be bad for my dog to have this Viszla come and stay?

Please help me, I don't know what to do.

By the way, no he's not crate trained at all, which doesn't help (which doesn't bode well for the flight home, although he was flown out here in September without any problems). I am crap at crate training and hate doing it, so I don't really want to do it myself.

And if I don't take him, they will have trouble finding anyone else, as they've only been in the country for 3 months and hardly know anyone. He is a complete wreck in kennels, apparently.

Not an expert but sounds like the two dogs are establishing a pecking order. All sounds normal it just depends whether you can cope or not. I wouldn't assume it is not going to work based on the first 24 hours.

I would agree with giving it a bit more time. Both dogs will be stressed and confused and not really understand what's going on. And hard as it is you have to try to be as calm and patient as possible, at least on the outside, you getting upset and panicky will only make things worse.

I do sympathise, we took on a second rescue dog recently and it was 100x harder than I imagined it would be - dogs growling/'fighting' each other (but then whining when separated ), winding each other up, chaos at mealtimes, poo/wee on the carpet, big disruption to my relationship with first dog. It's been a week now and things are starting to settle down, but I've had many thoughts of 'what have we done!?'.

A few 'accidents' in the house is normal until the dog gets used to your routine and where he's supposed to 'go'. Did his previous owners keep him in the house too? Can you separate them at night, e.g. your dog in the lounge (assuming she's clean at night). I'd put all toys away for the moment, and not give them chews/treats when together, it's asking for trouble with a possessive dog (as I've learned in the last week!)

Yeah, he's a house dog. He won't walk on soil for some reason, and he alos seems to perceive our little side garden as being an extension of the house, so he won't pee out there and seems to hold it in until we take him out the front. This is very annoying, as we aren't allowed to walk him around here (Muslim area) - our dog copes fine with this by using her dog-door and going in the side garden. He seems terrified of the dog-door, so I don't know if I will be able to train him to use it.

Since I 1st posted, I gave my dog her breakfast again, but without shutting her in the crate this time, and she ate it quickly and then allowed the Viszla into the kitchen after she'd finished, so I am happy with them sleeping in there together tonight now.

Aaargh have now had email off the owner reminding me to 'be firm with hint' and spray him with the water bottle every time he humps my dog or takes something he shouldn't. How do you convert people to positive reinforcement when you don't know them very well? I can see that a lot of his issues are down to him being trained using negative reinforcement....

'him' not 'hint' sorry (stupid iPhone auto correct!)

I think its great you are trying to help & whilst I'm not a dog owner, but a cat owner, I had a similar but much much milder problem with my cat.

I'd had my cat (4) about 2 mths when next door neighbours asked me to look after their cat (10) for 5 weeks. Literally as soon as they went away she was in our house, which was fine for me, but my cat HATED her.

We've had lots of ups & downs (pooing, weeing, cystitis) but next doors cat has decided that she pretty much lives with us now, despite being whacked by my cat when she is hungry. They've established a pecking order, fortunately other cat is submissive & they spend long hours on our heated floor ignoring each other. Sometimes they are on my bed ignoring each other...this is 3 years later.

I found feliway quite helpful, you can buy a version for dogs & it's a plug in that sends out pheromones which are somehow soothing, i think it's recommended for times of stress. www.medicanimal.com/category-list/~root_category_id=MA-DOGS/~category_id=MA-DOGS-BEHAVIOURAL/~pcategory=MA-DOGS

Agree that they are establishing a pecking order & I think I read on here recently that it's best to let them get on with it unless there is a risk of damage (how you measure that I have no idea).

I think the spraying water is horrible, there was also a post on here about a mn who was told to do that to her dog everytime he/she growled & the dog ending up biting without warning.

Actually, when I introduced some new hens to my small flock they fought & had to re-establish their pecking order, which took about 2 weeks in all.

Hopefully a dog expert will be along to advise soon.

no doggy expert but its very early days. I took on a rescue dog, same breed as mine, 7 years ago.

the first few days i really panicked. i thought i had the worst thing possible for both dogs and me! The rescue dog had never seen another dog, never walked on a lead, never travelled in a car. She seemed scared of everything, drooled constantly. i really thought "what have i done!?!"

but it did settle down, i cant remember the exact time scale, but it did.

I think you should give it a little longer, if you can. Its probably a shock to everyones system at the min - the dogs and yours!

my breed though is small and soft...no aggression. im sure some doggy expert will be along soon.

(is val still not here??)

Which country are you in? The UK laws were relaxed as of 1st Jan www.defra.gov.uk/wildlife-pets/pets/travel/ it's worth checking, as it's now only 21 days after rabies vaccine (no blood test) before they can enter the uk, it does vary though. Hth, as it may not be for as long as you think.

No it's definitely 3 months, he's fallen through the net on one of the requirements and this is a rabies country which isn't part of the pet passport scheme.

I think I would feel better if the dog was better trained - he seems to only know sit, which makes my life harder - my dog knows 'in your bed' and 'settle down' but there's no point making her do it if the other dog is just going to jump all over her.

PS thanks Willowsip but I have the canine equivalent of Feliway (Adaptil) already plugged in and on the go.

I think you could find ways to work around all of these issues, but it will be a lot of work for you. I don't think the owners realize how big an ask this is (or maybe they do but they are desperate). The question is, do you want to do all this for some people you hardly know and a dog that you will have to give up in three months?

When we went from one dog to two it was really hard work at the beginning, especially since Dog2 had no manners and no training. It has got better and now it's fairly easy - but of course we were keeping Dog2.

I think it will mean the world for these people if you do this - and I think you will return their dog much better behaved. But it is a big commitment on your part.

On the other hand, was it you who asked about dog training on another thread a while back? If you are thinking about this then it might be a good way to get some practise on another dog before you make any commitments. (Sorry if I got the wrong person).

As for training methods, I think you are entitled to do your own thing while the dog is in your house. Much better to use positive methods. Save the spray-with-water for emergencies!

It is a lovely thing you have offered to do for these people, and it's ultimately only up to you whether you go through with it or not.

Hey Redwing,
Thanks for remembering me - yes it was me who has aspirations to become a dog trainer.

But your other points about the dog needing a lot of work to fit into OUR family life are so true. I had a big heart to heart with hubbie about it this evening, and we've decided not to do it.

I feel really bad, but I just don't have the energy to devote to another dog after I have finally (after months of hard work) got to a point where we could start to relax with our own dog. I have to put her needs first, and 11-15 months will be such a critical period for her when we try and cement everything we have taught her. I just can't risk her picking up any bad habits or her training getting neglected.

What has nailed it for me this evening is that this dog has a MASSIVE fear of the car - they had warned me about it. They just throw him into the car regardless, and expect me to do the same thing, but I just hated doing that to him this afternoon. He is a jibbering wreck even going near the thing. I tried a bit of counter-conditioning but I couldn't even get far enough away from the car to start it.

Once he is in there, he barks and whimpers constantly and he's a danger to himself and me.

I just can't do it. I feel so bad for these people. But this dog needs a lot of work and I'm not prepared to do it for a dog I will have to give back to someone else 12 weeks later :(

I still do have aspirations to become a dog trainer by the way, but in my own time and only once I've had some decent training myself!

It is hard work going from 1 to 2, especially a dog that is fearful of lots of things.
You have to let the dog owners know asap so that they can make other arrangements.

Is there a kennel locally that can help? Or a local trainer? Sorry Feesh, no idea where in the world you are, but sounds middle east to me.

Just wanted to add, I board dogs and have one of my own and the first 24-48 are normally quite hard work.

Seeing as quite a lot of my clients are weekenders, sometimes I do wonder why on earth I do it

When I started I was in tears after a few hours with my first one, I know what to expect now.

Totally understand if you have decided it is beyond you atm, but if you extended the trial for a couple of days you maight feel very differently.

Jaxteller, yes Middle East - there is a boarding kennels but it would cost them a lot of money and apparently he is a complete wreck in kennels (I can WELL believe this). There is a local trainer who might take him in, I've been talking to her on Facebook in private, although she would charge.

WhereThe I'm sure it will get easier, but I'm looking at the bigger picture - my dog tends towards nervousness, and if we get another dog in the house I want it to be a more confident one. Also things like his fear of cars, he needs more work than I am prepared to put in - he basically needs professional help. I could just shove him in the car every time we go for a walk, like they do, but I honestly couldn't live with myself putting him through that every day. He's scared of things like the hoover - it would be like having our puppy again when I had to positively condition every little thing. I was so glad to get normal life back after a few months and I'm reluctant to give it up again. If it was a different dog, I would think more positively about it I'm sure.

Tbh given you descriptions of both dogs etc I think you would be better not to get involved. My dog is also a total wreck in kennels (ex rescue) so I use a professional dog sitter. Would this be a more acceptable solution for them? I have no experience of the MIddle Eastutensil no contacts, but I hope there is a happy outcome for everyone concerned - you must be lovely to have given it a try :)

Hahaha DYAC - I've got no contacts etc offer. No idea what the utensils are for

seashells autocorrect makes me laugh so much.

feesh I have 2 GSDs and it would have to be a very centred, laid back dog that lived with my 2 for me to take on another for a friend (and it would have to be a bloody good friend). My two are fine, but bringing another dog into 'their dynamic' isnt easy. Emergency fosterer for a weekend now and then reminds me that 3 isnt for me.

I did a favour for someone last year and ended up with 3 large breed dogs in the house. What was supposed to be a few weeks turned into a few months. Luckily my pupstar was only a few months old, so it didnt affect her at all, but mentally it drove me crazy!

Having 2 quite challenging dogs in the house would drive me insane. It wont help your friendship, you will resent the dog and owners and feel put upon. It just isnt worth it.

This is really their problem to solve, so give them some details of places to help, but dont 'own' their problem.

Feesh, I think you have made the right decision. You have to put your own dog first. This other dog has so many issues and you would have had to work on all of them. It was really nice of you to think of it - and I am sure if it was a calm well-behaved dog you would have come to a different conclusion. It shows you were right to have a trial run before committing! Hopefully they can find a person for it to board with instead of kennels.

Sorry you feel it's too much for you all, I do feel very sad for the other dog though .

He'll be fine Willowsip, this kind of thing happens all the time over here. He fits in well with his own family life and has a good life, it's just that I am a bit anal have high standards! I'm sure they will find someone else to take him, that dog trainer I have been speaking to is definitely interested.

I expect you're right & of course, your family comes first Fingers crossed the trainer takes him.