She just isn't calming down

[SilentBoob]

It is nearly 2 in the morning here and I have woken up worrying about the dog.

What's prompted this is that she snarled and snapped at my 3 yr old today - didn't bite, but he really wasn't doing anything wrong - just standing near her bed.

I made a rather bad decision to get a dog about 3 months ago. We have had dogs before and had agreed to get another, but instead of sticking to the plan and getting something sensible I got all emotional and got a 10 month old rescue puppy. Realised pretty soon it was a duff decision, but decided to make the best of it and she would eventually calm down.

She isn't calming down.

We're not in UK. There is no real alternative for her.

When people arrive at the house she gets so excited that she knocks things and children over, smashing into people, bum tucked in, jumping full over the sofa, utterly out of control. Not with everyone. Some people just get normal doggy enthusiasm. I don't even merit her getting up off her bed (why is this?).

She is so mouthy and bites the children. Not actually bites, but is inappropriately mouthy and hurts them sometimes. She also does these little foraging font teeth nips which hurt - no idea what prompts them.

If the children do anything remotely interesting (eg move quickly, run through the house, dance to their music) she joins in and bites / knocks them over / puts her two paws on their shoulders and knocks them to the floor. I don't think she understands any of the boundaries I have tried to set with the children.

When they sit watching tv she likes to stand over them. Actually over them. I have now banned her from the couch but it's hard work getting this through to her.

She has absolutely NO recall. None. It's not that she gets it and chooses not to come - she simply doesn't get it. Weirdly, she will sit or lie down at one command from 30 paces even if barking at something interesting.

I don't have an emotional connection with her. I don't get what motivates her. I find communication with her a real struggle. She doesn't speak any doggy language I understand eg absolutely NO cues for when she wants a wee. None. Not circling, not waiting at the door, not looking at me, not restlessness, not sighing, nothing. But if the front door isn;t open she will nip up to dd's room for a quick wee and come down looking shifty, so she knows she needs to go and knows it should be in the garden.

She takes against people. Barks at a 9 yr old neighbour who is scared of dogs. Barks at one of dh's friends. Barks at the little girl next door. Barks at any babies in the house.

She also gets massively attached to some people (eg my cleaner's husband) with no real rhyme or reason. She is not particularly attached to me. That's okay, but it adds to my feeling that I don't really understand this dog.

I don't trust her with the children, and I am having another baby in 2 months.

Things will seem better in the morning. She will calm down, but you might have to teach her how.

With the nipping, when she nips yelp as if she has really hurt you and ignore her briefly. She will learn not to. Once she knows not to use her teeth, you can then do the same thing to teach her not to mouth. There's something about teaching bite inhibition here.

When she jumps up, fold your arms and turn away without saying anything. She will learn that she is not meant to jump on you. You'll have to ask all visitors and your children to do the same so that she learns not to jump on anyone.

You can practise calming her down by playing a game with her that gets her excited (like tug of war or fetch) and then stopping and asking her to sit or lie down and trying to calm her down. Reward her with treats or affection for obeying your command and for becoming calm.

It sounds like she has a good sit and lie down so you can use those commands when someone comes to the door. Another option is to teach a 'place' command so that you can send her to her bed or a crate when someone comes to the door. You will have to go back to basics with the toilet training by the sound of it.

I am sure minimuu and others will be along with lots of advice. You did a great thing rescuing a dog but she will need training to be the kind of dog that you want. Can DH help you with training, or can you get a trainer?

I have two rescue dogs, one is wonderful but the other is a complete handful. It is taking time to train him but he is already getting better. It's tough when you have to work on so many behaviours at once, so I can sympathize.

P.S. I am sure she loves you. She just gets excited by new people, and is around you all the time. Working on training her will help her relationship with you develop.

Sounds like she might be quite nervous or stressed, there seems to a lot going on in her little life as you've got what sounds like a very full and busy life. I think puppy classes, a lot of exercise to tire her out and socialising her with very calm people and dogs could help. Your vet might be able to recommend classes or a trainer.

Best thing I ever learnt about dogs is to ignore them/get others to ignore them until they calm down then ignore them some more. I think it gives them space to settle in a situation instead of feeding off everyone else's nerves/excitement. Plenty of regular exercise is a must as she sounds very energetic. A lower protein food might also help - around 18%. I use Burns chicken and brown rice but there are cheaper low protein options too.

Above all stay calm with her. I'm sure she'll become a wonderful pet in time.
Good on you for rescuing her and persevering with her.

Yes, it doesn't seem quite so bad in the morning.

Sweet puppy was delighted to see us all this morning and went bouncing out into the garden to shout at the crows and dig up my tomatoes, bless her .

Redwing, I think you are right that some dogs are simply much harder work than others. We have done the squealing and withdrawing attention for every nip from the day she arrived. We have consistently turned our backs on every overexcited jump up, and asked all guests to do the same. 3 months in there seems to be NO PROGRESS with either of these issues. But we'll persevere.

We do have a busy house and busy lives, and she doesn't always get all the focussed attention or exercise she needs. I know this. She is still very much better off with us than any alternative in this country, and I will try to be more patient. She does very well with some things.

And yes, ThoughtIdOnly - I think she probably is a bit stressed and anxious about some things. She had a very rocky start in life. She is not the ideal dog for this family, and we are not the ideal family for her, but we've got her now and we'll stick with it.

I'll investigate the lower protein food. Good tip.

Am still worried about her snarling and snapping at ds though. How best to react if she does it again?

Morning

We got a 6 month old rescue pup, and although not as bouncy sounding as yours...still can relate to quite a lot of that. Especially the jumping up/nipping at my then 4 year old dd. It was almost as if he couldn't place her, and treated her like a fellow pup rather than a human being. He was much better behaved (on the whole) with 7 year old dd.

Time, repetition of training for both dd2 and dog, getting dd2 involved in giving treats, teaching 'sit, giving food bowl (ie making her human and not canine in dog's eyes). Also, for everyone's sanity and in the name of calming things down, I give the dog treats in his crate for brief periods when things get hairy....he is very used to crate (and loves it), which helps hugely. Honestly has saved my sanity in those moments of not trusting dog with children - and he's calmed down a lot after a few months, but its still a work in progress!

It is pretty common for people to get rid of dogs at about 10-18 months old when they realise that dogs are hard work. We found a sheepdog trainer who has helped us enormously with our youngest when none of the normal training things seemed to work. Dogs can be very protective over their beds. Can you get a crate, or put her bed somewhere really out of the way? Two of our dogs don't like children and it's very important that there is a mutual respect.
With our youngest, we use a method of pressure and release. I don't want to try to explain it here as it might not make sense and it may not suit your dog. Dogs, like people, like boundaries. Are there dog trainers where you live? What is the attitude towards dogs like? I realise that in different countries the culture towards animals can be very different to that in UK.

What breed is she?

I'm not looking to get rid of her. There is nowhere for her to go. The only thing that I can't be lenient about is if I think she's going to bite or hurt the children. I am fully aware that this is as much a child-training issue as a dog-training one.

I will start letting the children make her sit and wait while they give her her supper.

No idea as to breed. Best guess would be Saluki / Collie cross. Something like that anyway. Slim, pointy, dainty, beautiful.

Does she have/could she have a crate, Silent? Admittedly, if she isn't used to one it would be an extra job to crate-train so that she enjoyed it and found it a haven rather than a punishment, but maybe worth it in the long run - especially with new baby on the horizon?

I discovered that pup is actually calmer and happier when removed from mad behaviour with kids and crated with a kong/treat for half an hour - gives him a chance to calm down and have his own space, and gives me/the kids the same. Little breaks, but so valuable.

ps she sounds gorgeous - any chance of a pic?

Are you teaching her what is acceptable when people arrive?

She sounds a bit hysterical tbh, and very highly strung. My guess is that she's frantically trying to do the right thing and can't do right for doing wrong iykwim.

Squealing very often makes a nipping dog worse - it over excites them. A very firm no where you mean business might be more productive. Then remove the dog from the room for a minute or so. If you choose a crate, don't ever use it for punishment tin this way.

Keeping things calm and working on positive praise may work better for you. Teach her to sit when people arrive - keep her on a lead and work the lead to make sure she doesn't jump up. Reward with whatever most pleases her - food, a squeaky toy, a tickle on the chest. I go for calm and gentle praise with a stroke on the chest (not the head for an excitable dog).

Teach her the wait or stay command and keep going at it until both wait and sit are perfect in every situation. If recall is a problem, find something you know she'll come to and use it while calling her in. Don't ever set her up to fail - at this stage don't try and recall her in a situation where you know she's going to ignore you, it will just get her used to ignoring the command.

It'll be hard work, but show me a young dog - especially one who had a rocky start that isn't!

Along with sessions with a trainer (and on his recommendation) I have used this product to deal with jumping and going for other dogs: www.companyofanimals.us/products/dog-training-and-accessories/stop-barking/pet-corrector
It might work for you, you spray it near not on the dog and it needs to be an immediate consequence for the bad behaviour so they associate something they dislike with the bad behaviour. It's short term measure only and not a substitute for training and as much as exercise as you can manage. It has definitely worked with my dog and she is now socialising well with other dogs.
It might help and it's a personal choice whether to use it but getting a fright from a hiss of air is probably a lot better than the outcomes for everyone involved if nipping escalates. Reward based training won't always work against bad habits already formed so worth considering.

Agree with the squealing being counter-productive - it's only supposed to work up to 10 weeks old anyway.

I just want to note that 3yo ds has just done a very protracted naked 'wiggly dance' all around the room complete with sound effects, and dog did not leap up once. She was very interested and watched like a hawk, but I told her it was okay, and that she should stay there and she did!! Am really pleased. I think it helped that I let her know I was watching her the second the performance started. I have given her a good scratch and a chewy stick on her bed.

Compare that with yesterday evening when ds walked calmly into the kitchen and she leaped on him, mouthing and biting. I have just clicked that she is inviting him to play with her with all this rough and tumble.

She does have a crate which she used to love but my butt-head husband got the wrong end of the stick and put her in it crossly a few times and now she doesn't like it. She does usually sleep in it. She is fine once in but dances around all over the place trying to avoid going in it. At the moment we are downplaying the whole crate thing, and I am just about speaking to my husband again.

We have been doing more of a very short squeak than a squeal for the nipping. I don't think it is a particularly exciting noise.

Thanks for the suggestion thoughtidonly, but I think any kind of punishment training would be completely wrong for this dog. She is not over confident and pushing boundaries; she is clueless and all over the place.

Thank you to everyone who has been posting. It is really helpful to talk about her with people who understand dogs. Dh is not really a dog person, and none of my friends have dogs either.

Well done! It really does sound like she just needs to know what's the right thing to do and when she doesn't she reverts to frantic puppy behaviour by default. Which I have no doubt looks even worse because she is probably adult size by now.

Positive training is the way forward for your girl. Punishment training is outdated, unnecessary and something I couldn't feel more strongly against. I have never met a good trainer who would recommend such a thing. In your case, I think it would be a disaster. She's highly strung enough already!

I've never got the squeak/squeal/yelp thing with puppies. In fact I think it's very confusing for the dog. We are not dogs. We don't yelp or growl or bark. We talk, shout and whistle. If you watch young dogs playing together, yes, a yelp is a signal to another dog that what ever it's doing is hurting BUT it's just a sign to stop biting that bit, or stop standing on that ear and come back and play some more.

The 'you've gone too far and I've had enough' sign is to walk away and refuse to engage. Adult dogs do it with puppies, puppies do it to each other. I do it with mine when they're awful. I usually start hoovering or something.

You're right, the behaviour is about trying to initiate play. It's a normal young dog behaviour and needs channelling. Clicker training will probably work a dream with your dog - Minimu is the poster to talk to about it. There were a couple of threads devoted to it not too long ago.

I had the biter from hell puppy. I was continually sewing up holes in our clothes (like 5 a day) and we were all lacerated. It passed. He is 18m now and still occasionally takes a treat from a hand a bit too hard but an ouch will do it.

I had a similar thing with no connection to the dog because I am out at work so dh is main dog person. We went to training classes which helped no end and now I take him running. Still unreliable recall off lead, I really wish I'd worked harder on that when he was younger. Dh can get him no prob. Try a dog whistle? That's helped.

Daisydoandgertie, what is punishment training? Is a little tug on the collar and saying no firmly classified as punishment training? Spot the rookie

Ah, adolescence. The joys of dogs this age .

I've nothing to add really to all the training tips. But I did want to say that after lots of reward-based training classes and consistent effort, our younger dog is just starting to feel like how a proper dog should be. That's instead of a crazy, constantly on the go, hard work bundle of tornado-like energy. She's 20 months.

Our older dog is 10 and my goodness, you wouldn't know we had him in the house most of the time. He just sleeps, loves his food, enjoys the odd walk. You have this to look forward to.

Yours is a bit young to be at the calming down stage. But that's good in a way, because you know it won't always be this way. Has she been spayed, out of interest? I only ask because I think it helped a little with ours.

Ooh yes we got enormo-pup's nuts off after a very traumatic dog training session where he completely lost control of himself just because a bitch was giving him the eye, not in season or anything. 34kg of lustful adolescent dog is no joke. It is really great for ds (6yo) to have such a lovely big dog though, they are very sweet rolled up together.

Shouty - when I say punishment training I mean using fear or pain as a method of training or controlling a dog.

Things like the correction spray, citronella collars, shock collars and spiked collars; or by beating a dog or rubbing noses in poo.

Stern words and a collar tug are quite normal and appropriate. Frightening or hurting a dog are not.

Daisydotandgertie, glad to hear it. Saying no and a collar tug seems to be teaching our puppy what his boundaries are. We leave the treats for a successful recall. Murphy certainly knows neither fear nor pain!

SilentBoob, very impressed with non-reaction to naked dance! You sound completely spot on with your dog, sounds like you contained her beautifully.

I don't think you need to worry about your relationship with her

Sounds like you might have cracked it, which is great news for pups and kids alike - here's to harmonious living from now on.

My last dog, I got as a 6 month old rescue puppy and I remember at about 18 months being sat in tears with the yellow pages not sure if I was looking for a behaviouralist or to rehome him...

He was a nutcase, lol, he responded fairly well to training in that he would obey commands, but his personality was the problem, over friendly, over enthusiastic, massively energetic and prone to doing random mad things when you weren't expecting it. Things like deciding that what had been a massively exciting game of fetch with you in the park was suddenly less interesting than the two council workers sat in a transit having lunch and that what he really needed to do was try to jump in their window to say hello and he'd decide this quickly enough that you'd be left still going as you turn round and his back end was hanging out of a van.

Or that the children were so lovely that he would have to knock them to the ground and lick them (he did adore children, but maybe not the best way of showing it, lol)

Anyway...suddenly as he hit about 2, I slowly realised that I hadn't had a day that I was completely at the end of my tether with him in a while and I didn't really have one again, he did calm down and he did learn acceptable behaviour - though it took what seemed like an eternity at the time.

He was always an interesting dog to have, he still would randomly do something insane and unexpected and he was always over-excitable, but he learnt to stand still and quiver at children instead of jumping up at them (yes I know still not completely desirable, but an improvement, lol) He never had 100% recall which meant I had to be cautious about where I let him offlead - but mostly after he hit 2, he was by far, my favourite dog...he died last year and I miss him massivley, probably because of his quirks rather than despite them, lol