is this right? Neurotic setters not being walked.

[felicitywits]

I need to say first of all that I have never had a dog and know next to nothing about them. I am looking for reassurance/explanations as much as anything as I'm a bit uncomfortable with what's going on with MIL's dogs and am sure it's coming from a place of ignorance.

Anyway - MIL and FIL live in the country along with BIL and two red setters (hope that's the official name for them), boys called Woof and Wag (not their real names). They are 7 and were bought as pups from a KC registered breeder.

MIL has always had setters, including in a flat in London yonks ago - she died about 20 years ago and there have been no pets since as MIL and FIL weren't settled.

Anyway. Woof and Wag are, apparently, neurotic. FIL used to live in the country but lately has a job five hours away, as does MIL, so for much of the week the dogs are at home with BIL who is unable to take them out.

They aren't walked. They used to be, because I've taken them out myself, but apparently Woof started startling and bolting at loud noises (gunshy?), and FIL couldn't control him. If anyone takes Wag out without Woof, Woof worries his own front paws - he's made a terrible mess of them in the past and they've gotten infected etc.

Wag won't eat unless someone feeds him off a ladle(!), apparently. So MIL or FIL will sit next to him feeding him out of his bowl with a ladle, it takes hours.

Wag recently broke out of the garden and attacked a sheep in the neighbouring field. MIL had to pay off the farmer not to destroy him then and there and he's on his final warning, so she is terrified he will escape again and has put security measures in place.

It's the not walking thing which worries me. We've been down for almost a week now and the dogs get almost no exercise at all. They can go outside and there's a large garden but aren't allowed out unless closely supervised in case they break out. I asked about them being taken for walks now and MIL said last time they tried there was some kind of shooting going on and Woof had to be carried home by FIL.

But surely they need to be walked? This sounds so rubbish for them!

FIL doesn't like going out, generally, as he has anxiety issues and part of the reason for getting the dogs was because MIL wanted him to get out more, make friends in the area etc. Also she was planning to retire so would've been around more. But that's not happened as I explained above.

They're nice dogs and fine with the DCs but seem so inactive and depressed.

Is this something which happens often with setters?

IMO, it is a case of bad owners and not just setters.

ANY dog who is not excercised and using their brain would become badly behaved. Certainly my two labs would.

A very sad situations for the dogs.

If there are issues then they need help to work thru them- the answer is not just to not walk the dogs. Very sad.

BTW, as a teenager I used to walk two setters, with my lab bitch. They went on three walks a day, two small, one big. They were well behaved and calm and a joy to be around. One was a very fussy eater, but certainly no one ever ladel fed him!

See if I knew more about dogs I could maybe argue? But whatever I've said (that maybe Wag should be taken out anyway, and Woof would get used to it, or that they might benefit from some intensive training or something), is rubbished because I don't know anything about dogs.

I think MIL and FIL massively anthropomorphise the dogs.

I have one ( apparently the approved term is Irish setters now). She can develop weird fears, such as of a feather but without an off lead walk she would, quite naturally, be a nightmare. It's not fair to have a dog like thus if your own difficulties prevent you from walking them; I think you are quite right. Harder to broach with them tho, I imagine

Actually, on re-reading your post I feel pretty cross: they are really lovely dogs, with loving friendly temperaments and this is no way to treat them. There is an Irish setter website that may point you in direction of professional advice and also helps to rehome setters, can't link cos on phone but google.

"FIL doesn't like going out, generally, as he has anxiety issues and part of the reason for getting the dogs was because MIL wanted him to get out more, make friends in the area etc."

Sounds like FIL's issues have been recreated in the dogs. An awful situation - neglect, if not cruelty - nothing to do with the breed of the dogs at all.

The dogs need to be taught how to walk outside, to eat, to interact normally. This will probably involve home visits from a good dog trainer/behaviourist as I fear the PILs will not realise what they are doing and what they have created.

Dogs do need exercise and this is not a healthy situation for them to be in. However it does also seem as if the owners also need help.

If they could contact a local dog trainer/walker they could sort the dogs out very easily - on lead walking to start with both dogs together. I wouldn't mind betting that the dogs behaviour will be very different when being walked by someone other than their owners.

Maybe your FIL also needs to look for some help himself. But 2012 could be the year they all go for a walk happily together.

Could you take the dogs out if you are staying and see what they are like. Don't let them off lead and don't force them into situations they are unhappy but keep things upbeat and jolly.

I've offered to take them out but they said absolutely not as I wouldn't be able to carry Woof if he had a 'funny turn'. We used to take them out all together on huge long walks but that's not happened for the past couple of christmasses at least. And in summer there's shooting apparently

I do feel very strongly that FIL sees his own issues in the dogs, as it were - not consciously of course - but he's interpreting their behaviour through his own lens as it were.

It strikes me as a vicious cycle though - I know my DCs go stir crazy, but then again they are DCs not dogs!

Your instincts are spot on the dogs do need to get some exercise and also your comment that the dogs seem down is just what they tend to do. Dogs are very adaptable and to deal with the situation they would just shut down.

You do seem very eloquent and able to interpret the situation well - lets hope that skill means you can get through to your IL's.

Poor dogs, if there is any way you can, please intervene. Setters are gorgeous goofy dogs that love to run and need proper exercise. I'm not surprised that they are developing funny traits, but I'm not sure I believe everything you are being told. I wonder if your FIL is exaggerating to avoid having to go out himself.

Feeding a dog with a ladle?!! That's just mad. I have a weird about food dog, who would mess me about if I let him. Easy to solve, just take the bowl away if the food isn't eaten, and don't feed again until meal time next day. Dogs don't starve themselves.

Thankyou so much for these responses. And the chance to discuss this, it's obviously bothering me even more than I thought :(

I thought that, about them not starving themselves. MIL has even said Wag is 'anorexic' and his not eating is proof of his neuroses - but it seems to me that if they're getting no exercise they don't need that much food anyway? Certainly not being fed off a ladle for hours. They're not fat at all, and don't look bony either (hard to tell with all the fur!)

MIL, who loves setters, was very much the driving force in getting the dogs, FIL's never had or wanted dogs previously (though he dotes on them now).

I asked if they'd considered employing someone to take them out, a specialist (since MIL has apparently consulted a dog psychologist(?) in the past), and they said they couldn't do that as in case Wag worried another sheep or control was otherwise lost or Woof needed to be carried etc.

MIL talks a lot about her previous setter, who apparently wasn't that physical either and was happy living in a flat etc. But she was very elderly when they were in the flat, she had a much more active life before that.

I've been trying to play with them outdoors (my DSis has a dog - a whippet though - and they just have no idea what to do, but then again I'm sure setters and whippets and labs (my only other experience of a dog), like different games and stuff.

They are such lovely dogs. I'm really not sure what I can do - MIL and FIL get very defensive and of course they're right, I don't have any idea what to do with dogs and they HAVE and do fork out for the best care. So perhaps it just is how Woof and Wag is, but it just feels so unnatural.

They are company for FIL, he sits on the sofa or works upstairs when he's here, and they will sit near him and just lift their heads up when people come through (they go mental when cars drive past though and have to be restrained), it feels wrong and not what they should be doing at all. I know every dog is different but they're only 7, they should be more lively.

I don't know what to do If I offered to pay for a behaviouralist - which I would in a heartbeat - it would be taken in very bad odour. They feel they are doing their best for them.

I don't normally post in here, since i don't have dogs, but my parents have had several setters and they are such lovely dogs, but really do need a lot of exercise. When I was a teen, i used to take ours for long, long walks - I'd be gone for hours with her, even when she was elderly. She was wonderfully well behaved, except when she was colluding with the cat to steal food from high places. They were a formidable team

She did have some weird phobias, though, as does the Irish red setter my parents have now. Their recently passed Red and white Irish setter also had some weird habits, like refusing to eat food from a bowl the red setter had investigated. He was as scared of loud noises as the setter we had as a teen.

They're such energetic animals that they definitely need some sort of intervention - even if it's hiring someone experienced with dogs to take them for walks - one at a time, so as to help break bad habits.

Thanks so much for your responses guys.

I had a chat with DH about the dogs yesterday and at dinner he asked lots of questions (not so you'd know, he was very subtle, much moreso than judgypants me).

Something which made me very sad was when FIL said there was no point taking them on a long walk as you never knew when Woof was going to have a funny turn.

Anyway, today DH cornered MIL (who worships him and the DCs), and they have taken Wag out for a big walk along the beaches "because the DCs so want to".

FIL is out so couldn't object. So I feel like we've done something nice. Woof doesn't seem too put out so far... I am hoping that if I can say Woof was fine with Wag being taken out, it might happen more often.

Yay hurray - bet he loved it