Nervous aggression

[scappydoodah]

First post, so not just the dog that's nervous.....

I have two collies, both nervy, but the older (5yrs) is very much an alpha on his own territory. The younger (2yrs) is much more submissive.

The problem is with the younger dog. He was well socialised, and was walked with other dogs from a young age. However, at about 1 year he started to react aggressively towards strange dogs. This got gradually worse until the point where I could not walk past another dog without him lunging, snarling, and snapping. I think he is trying to protect the older dog, as he particularly aggressive if a large dog approaches him.

I have tried several trainers, and have been advised to act calmly and in charge, to distract the dog, and take control. I do all of this, but have yet to succeed in breaking his head down eye contact with the perceived threat. He is very much a collie and hunkers down low, staring. Food, noises, a tug on the lead, none of these work.

Although I have managed to reduce the problem to a lung/snap, he is still a problem.

I urgently need to sort this out as if anyone gets between him and the strange dog he will bite them, virtually without warning. I am not sure if he is lunging at the person, or the dog behind them, but a bite is a bite. I was bitten on the leg when I stupidly tried to block him, and he snapped at a child that ran up to hug him, blocking his view.

Away from other dogs he is very very friendly and affectionate and rolls on the floor for cuddles.

Anyone advice gratefully received.

Do you think he needs to wear a muzzle when out in public? Until this is resolved, anyway. I'm sorry to hear that he bit you, but imagine if he had bitten the child instead of just snapped at it.

It sounds like you have made some progress, at least, which is good. I'm not a dog training expert but I'm sure someone will be along in a minute. I think you might need to start trying to work with him at a greater distance from other dogs (ie far enough that he doesn't start to get worked up). The food/commands etc will all work better then, before he gets too excited to hear you, and then you can just remove him from the situation if he begins to get too worked up.

You are doing the right thing trying to get this sorted. Good luck with it.

Thanks redwing. I've thought about a muzzle, but what worries me is he is nervous. Tying his mouth shut will frighten him and possibly take us backwards with this.

I keep him on a lead whenever we are in a situation where other people may be about, and he has perfect recall if he does see a dog in the distance. Being near me is his preferred option. I tell people he snaps, and ask them not to let their children approach. He has only ever snapped once, and the child was really in his face, but once is too often, and I am careful.

Got to dash out now but will be back. There are lots of stuff you can try but will go into detail more later. Very common behaviour with some collies and can be turned around with time.

Thanks minimuu. You're a star. Very grateful for any advice as he is the most gorgeous intelligent little dog, and an absolute pleasure in every other way.

Marking my place as my mums dog does this too although just at random dogs not all! I don't think muzzles are tight on their mouths they can still bark and pant.

He sounds like a lovely dog apart from this issue, so I hope you can get it sorted. I am sure minimuu will have great advice :)

Sorry it took a while to get back RL got in the way!

Have you clicker trained with him at all? This will help with this very familiar collie behaviour.

Collies are fab dogs as you know having two. However they are used to thinking for themselves and will take it upon themselves to behave in a certain way in a certain situation combine that with their intelligence to learn quickly and they teach themselves inappropriate behaviours too easily

You need to be able to give him another behaviour to do when he sees dogs.

So grab a clicker and go to a distance that he can tolerate without lunging and going loopy Click when he looks at a dog and treat. It doesn't matter to start with if he does not look at you just offer the best treat in the world, liver, chicken, cheese etc.

After a while ask to look dog and the click as he turns to see you - which he should start to do when the treat does not appear. You are now teaching him that he sees a dog, he looks at you and that is the correct behaviour.

Your aim is to build up so that he can look dog standing near to dogs and eventually look dog and walk past them. This is the hardest bit as the collie herding position will be a strong habit to break.

So the other command you need to teach is a "Lets go" command. Armed with clicker and treat walk towards another dog . Keep the distance so that he is not going herdy and loopy (it may to start with be a massive distance) then turn around very quickly say "Lets go" click and treat him the minute he turns to follow you.

Practise these two commands "look dog" and "lets go" for a while. Then when you feel this is going ok and becoming the default behaviour you can up the anti. Start to walk towards an oncoming dog - the minute he goes herdy turn around and give a lets go command. When he is walking nicely to heel again you can try again to approach the oncoming dog.

This is trying to break down that herdy behaviour and allow you to walk past calmly whilst saying look dog - he will look at the dog and back to you - now that this is the new behaviour you want from him.

It will take time, you will get frustrated BUT it will work - done it many times with clients dogs and have seen the evidence myself. Also using it on a very reactive foster dog and the difference is amazing.

There is scientific evidence that the sound of the clicker helps calm some dogs and can actually break through when other noise can't so really worth using the clicker for this one.

HTH - let me know how you get on

Also while retraining I would try to avoid situation where he will fail so you may need to distance yourself from other dogs for a bit and gradually get nearer as your dog gets more familiar with his new behaviour. Also best to do with only the one dog at a time.

Thanks minimuu, really really helpful post. You are brilliant! I've not clicker trained him, or tried the techniques you suggest so I'm hopeful. He's super bright, too bright really, so should pick up the clicker side of things very quickly.

My biggest problem may be engineering situations where we meet other dogs, as I'm quite rural. We do meet them, I just can't predict when or where. I'll work something out though.

If he is new to the clicker spend about a week just clicking the clicker and immediately give him a treat. It is called charging the clicker. So he realises that clicker means instant reward.

Also using the clicker for general tricks can help to amuse his mind which in itself can help him be more relaxed.

I do understand how hard it is to arrange dog meetings. Sometimes I have to drive to a popular dog walking spot (places I usually avoid!). Also sometimes walking around small towns or villages are good as most dogs should be on lead.

I have spent time lurking in car parks of common land and going no further than just clicking and treating in the car park - got strange looks but I am used to that now

Thanks again. I'll definitely focus on clicker basics first - looking forward to it actually. He loves any form of learning, so this is great. Good tip about car park lurking. There's one nearby used by a lot of dog walkers. Strange looks don't bother me. I get far worse when he is trying to take a lump out of someone's dog.

It's such a shame I didn't find out about clicker training before. V positive training method - like it.