Looking for advice on an issue with my ex's dog and how she is with me

[bananaistheanswer]

Hello,

Not posted in this section before so please be gentle!

My ex has a Japanese Akita dog. She will be 2 next month. He took her home when she was 7/8 weeks old. My DD is 6, and sees her dad occasionally (every 6/8 weeks or so). I was concerned about him getting this dog for a number of reasons before it happened, but as we are not together, my opinion isn't a factor in the decisions my ex makes.

When he had made up his mind that he was definitely getting the dog, he took DD along to the home where he bought the dog from, and DD met her. She's been around since the dog was a pup, and although she is wary of her a little now as she's so big, she is generally quite happy with the dog. The dog follows her around when she's there, and doesn't like to see her leave. The dog seems to be quite protective of DD.

My issue is this. I don't see the dog often at all. Occasionally I'll see it if he brings the dog down when collecting DD. On the odd occasion when I've been invited into my ex's house, I'm very wary of the dog. I like dogs in general, this isn't a situation where I have a fear of dogs etc. I'm just very wary of her.

Earlier today, I was dropping DD off at her dad's. I had to go up to his flat as he forgot to bring something down, and refused to go back up and bring it back. He also wanted me to see the flat as he's just painted it. Anyway, I went up, said hello to the dog, patted her once she's calmed down (jumps up a lot) and then went to say my good byes to DD. I had my arms around DD saying goodbye, giving her a cuddle, and the dog interpreted that as me trying to hurt DD. I didn't see the dog move, but ex grabbed her as she went to try and get to me in some way (there was no growling or apparent aggression, just not sure exactly how she was going to try and get at me).

Now, my ex made a big thing about this dog before he bought her, and how as a breed they are very protective of children. I am also aware of them being 'pack' dogs and if you are deemed lower in their 'pack' then they will try to be dominant with you. That seems to be the position I'm in with this dog. If I'm completely honest, I'm petrified of what this dog could do to me, if I make the wrong move, or whatever, and the dog deems me a threat to DD.

Does anyone have any advice on how I deal with this situation? I really don't know how to deal with this at all, and I can't avoid it completely.

Help?

I've had Akitas. They're beautiful dogs. Extremely good with children and very close to their family. They are dogs though, not wolves, ergo, they are not pack animals.

They don't like strangers much and will guard their family. Please for the love of all things holy do not try and dominate this dog in any way, shape or form. It will eat you if you try (well maybe it won't eat you but it could be dangerous for you). I used to have to ask my Akita nicely and politely if he would please move from in front of the kettle so I could make my coffee without tripping over him. He was not dominated at all by us. He was an arrogant little big so and so who would look at you like if you told him to do anything. He never posed any threat to me or his family.

They are known for not warning. An Akita will just jump to defend their family without so much as raised eyebrow however if you were just hugging your dd it is more likely that the dog just wanted to join in the fun and you misinterpreted his actions. They're not stupid dogs they know who is a threat and who is not.

My advise would be to spend time with the dog if you can and get to know him. Bring him treats. Alternatively steal him and post him to 'Dooin, At Dooin's house of madness, England'

I'd love to post you the dog dooin, but I think my ex might have something to say about it!

It was my ex who said he thought the dog was going for me as she thought I was hurting DD. I didn't see what she did, was just aware of my ex grabbing her to drag her away from us. The 'pack' thing - my ex told me about that, how she is a strong willed dog, had a strong pack mentality etc. and you had to be firm with it to get her to co-operate i.e. shout at it etc.

Getting to know the dog is impossible - I rarely see or spend time with my ex, just not the sort of relationship where that is likely to happen. Me spending time with the dog is even less likely to happen. I'll take the advice about not telling it to do anything. I really hate feeling that if I make one wrong move I'll become it's dinner [scared]

Your ex is an idiot and is putting himself in danger. Akitas are not pack animals and should be dominated. They need a firm but fair hand and consistant, positive training. He's also wrong about the dog going to attack you, imo, although admittedly I was not there. I can't say for sure, but it's doubtful in my mind from what you describe.

Please ask him to contact a trainer to work with him and the dog properly. Pack theory is well outdated and is dangerous to use on such a large, powerful breed.

I say this as someone with 14 years of experience of living with and training an Akita and with a firm, almost life long interest in that and other northern breeds. We've always had large, powerful dogs and none have been trained by us dominating them or laying hands on them. None have been aggressive or out of control.

I need to go and meet my sister now, but give Mininuu a PM and ask her to link you somethings on pack theory to show him. There was a very useful thread a few days ago on here if you look it up.

Agree completely with above. My dad in the 80s used to beat up the doberman we had when I was a child- all because she needed dominating so he could be leader of the pack. The poor dog didn't know what she was doing wrong or how to behave to not be beaten up. I retrospectively hate my dad now- thank god he's dead or he'd have my wrath to deal with. The sad thing is, the carry over of the outdated pack theory from this period means that people do not bond well with their dogs- they avoid eye contact, ignore them, make them walk behind them, won't let dogs 'win' at tug of war. It's all completely ridiculous and unnecessary.

For example, I feed my greyhound before we have tea, so she isn't hungry while we eat. I was told by a 'dog whisperer' to never go up to her, always call her over for attention to show I call the shots- apparently this will increase our 'bond'. Complete shite. This didn't sit right with me, so I read In Defence of Dogs (written by an animal behaviour scientist) and completely ignored what I had been told by these 'professionals'.

All dogs are different- some are stubborn and will test boundaries to see what they will get away with, others naturally want to please, others have strong instincts that have been bred into them, such as herding or guarding or retrieving. My grey has a combination of these, her chase instinct was strong when we got her- but her need to please overrides everything else. She now lives with cats and no longer lunges at squirrels at the park. No dogs specifically want to 'dominate' you, so don't worry about that part. However, like Dooin says, you need good advice from someone who knows what they're doing.

I bow to Dooin's superior knowledge, but wonder if the Akita's behaviour is similar to Japanese Shiba's, which I do know about?

There is a tendency to a weird kind of resource guarding. You can't always tell precisely WHAT is being guarded - in this case, possibly your daughter. The dog then sort of rushes at you. My friend's formally-abused rescue Shiba did this in a fairly worrying way. Worrying because I didn't know how it would end. Mine does it but doesn't bite. I can read her like a book, so it's not an issue (I hope) - perhaps your ex can do the same with his Akita?

Agree with everyone that heavy handed / dominance training with Japanese dogs is a huge worry though. They are far too independentally intelligent to cope well with this and frequently turn nasty in response.

Thanks for the replies. Not sure whether it makes me feel better or not! The problem is I have no influence with my ex and how he deals with his dog. He thinks he's Dr Dolittle when it comes to animals. Knows it all etc. He isn't physical with the dog as far as I know, just shouts commands etc. He probably thinks he's being firm, I just think it's shouting. She doesn't really take much notice of what he says - when the dog is excited to see DD, and jumping up, he shouts 'down' but it makes no difference at all. Fits in with the 'you talkin' to me?' description dooin gave further up. I just can't read the dog at all, and that's what worries me. She probably sense my unease as well, and it all makes for an uncomfortable time for me when anywhere near her. She follows DD around constantly when she's at her dad's, and seems to like her a lot. She just isn't too keen on me.

Thanks anyway.

ah tbh I know nothing about Akitas, but I do know about GSD and what a pile of shite your ex said...my dog very clearly lets you know if she likes you or not..if she does, she will tolerate anything you do to our kids, obviously though not CLEARLY hurting them..if she doesn't like you, you won't get in the house ! And for her to show that level of defence you need to seriously be aggressive to us, either manically knocking on the door, shouting etc etc, although the latter has only happened once :) if you are the average Joe, you'll be fine :)
My feeling is the dog is fine with you...she/he will sense whether you are a threat or not x

Completely agree with the above comments on getting help from a good trainer who uses reward-based methods. Dominance theory is completely outdated.

Cannot suggest anything but maybe you can print the article above to give your ex. There are many other resources (another one here) that bring the message across that using Dominance theory is very ineffective...

Thanks, that makes me feel a wee bit better .

I grew up with a red setter, and am not used to this type of dog at all. My dog was as daft as a brush, but you could at least read her iyswim. I can't suss this dog out at all.

Thanks again.