Minimuu please please please can we have a clicker thread please?!!

[Inthepotty]

Did I ask nicely enough?!

Basically, I've been clicker training my lab x pup and I am an addict!

An ADDICT! We've got sit, down, wait, roll, drop it, and loose lead walking down. Not too bad with heel, but TBH as long as it's loose lead I'm happy for him to have a sniff.

So.... What else can I teach him? preferably things that will impress FIL at Xmas who is still convinced if I don't 'dominate' my dog he will one day eat several toddlers in one go.

How old is your dog, inthepotty?

Mine is 8 months. We have sit, down, wait, 'in your bed' and er that's it.

I have also been using clicker for recall, but MN has made me realise that this was a mistake.

He's 18 weeks.

I'd love 'in your bed', might have a go, if you've got any tips? I too learnt the 'no clicker for recall' here too, and also the brilliant line from daisy, I think of 'never set your dog up to fail' so if we are out and I spot a cyclist, dog, toddler, so on, I call him back before he runs over to go mad playing games, so I don't end up shouting him relentlessy when he's having loads of fun? IYSWIM.

What breed do u have? ((nosey))!

He's a miniature schnauzer.

18 weeks - sounds like you have done brilliantly!

So how do you recall, just a call or do you use a whistle? I have buggered up on this aspect. A couple of weeks ago, he suddenly became a nightmare and started just haring off at a hundred mph. My dh has restored some order and he's much better, but I am really nervous now letting him off. I feel I need to start all over again with recall.

'In your bed' is really useful for when he's had a walk and is grubby. I let the bed bear the brunt of the dirt (easier to wash!)

Have you lot read this?
It's a must.

Thanks moondog, heard lots about it and read snippets but have just added that to my basket. another dog related purchase, DH grumbled...

Aww thanks smarty, he is a very very clever puppy dog! With recall, I started at home/garden with a "come on then" command, going mad with liver and praise when he came to me, just sort of progressed. I did let him off really early though (think 1st week out) on a long line bit of rope and just played tug or whatever so he'd think I was really cool and fun! I keep lots of treats and the wonder toy that is the ball on a rope in my pocket, I'll randomly call him back for a treat or quick throw of the ball and not just when I want him back on the lead. I like to keep him guessing!

The not coming back thing is probably a teenage phase, I'd maybe try and keep him on a long lead/training thing when out; so that u call him once and if he ignores go and get him! Theres an 8m lab in my puppy class and the trainer has advised the owners to do this, so the dog doesn't just learn to ignore the sound of your voice!

This may all be completely wrong so anyone with more knowledge feel free to correct!!

Wow guys you are doing well

What else would you like to do?

Tricks are fantastic to teach your dog, it bonds them to you and makes life interesting and really keeps the dogs mind busy. I am sure I have said it before but my aim is to teach my dogs a new trick a week even the old 15 year old girlie!

Go to bed is easy to teach, hold the dogs collar and put a yummy treat in the bed take a few steps back with dog and send to bed. The dog will run to the bed click and treat will be on the bed. If you have a good down once the treat has been eaten ask for a down and then click and treat again. Gradually over days remove the treat add the go to bed command and only click when the dog has gone to bed and gone down.

Easy things like paw, high five are good. Also twist or spin where the dog turns around in a circle either to the left or right.

Get them to pick up one foot in order eg if I say 1 they pick up their front right leg, 2 is front left leg, 3 is back left leg and 4 is right back leg. Once you have them picking up individual legs you can get them to limp on each foot.

Bow is good if you have a solid down

Weave through you legs is remarkably straightforward for many dogs

Hide their eyes (some dogs do this easily others find it hard)

Stand on their back legs (depends on age and type of dog)

Run around you in a circle

Walk backwards

Spin in front of you and walk backwards through your legs

Catchit

Best thing to start with is a nose touch command. Once you have this you can do hundreds of tricks - shut doors push balls, etc. Put you hand near the dogs nose - they will move forward to see it click and treat, keep doing this and then add the touch command. Then transfer the touch command to a small post it note. you can then stick the post it note on doors etc and tell them to touch it and they will start to close doors.

Also teach your dog to tug on command. Easy to teach just play tuggy and name it tug. With tug you can train opening doors, emptying washing machines, tumble driers, pull off your socks or coat, pull back your duvet when going to bed etc.

Just thought it is good to teach a solid wait as well. Many tricks will need the dog to be calm at the beginning so wait will help. If they are crated open the crate door and say wait - if they move forward close the door in their face (do not hurt them just gently!) Open the door if they pause for a millisecond click and treat gradually build up the time they wait for. Use this a lot, when getting out of the car for a walk etc. REMEMBER you must have a release command so they must wait until you say the release command. I use OK choose a word and always use the same word.

There are hundreds of tricks ask if you need more! This is just a warmup

Oooh, makes me want to unearth the clicker I bought a tad hastily when pup was about to arrive!

Vet nurse told me to wait till he'd settled. He's very settled.

Thanks minimuu! That's exactly what I was after.

I'm addicted to the clicker too

The best thing about it is, they just LOVE it so much

Trick-wise, I've taught:

Beg
Roll over
"Play dead" (collapse on side)
High five
Limp
Be shy/hide eyes
Close the door
Go through legs
Walk back
Pick up washing and put it in the wash basket

Along with all the usual "pet" obedience behaviours and some Competition Obedience exercises. Tricks are FAR more fun though!

Oh my God Calamity Kate! I am so , at all of those.

Can all you clever lot come round to mine please and give me a lesson

smartypants it is soooo easy to train with a clicker - you can do it!

I know!

I have just ordered moondog's recommended book too.

By Christmas I want all of CalamityKate's list. He did bring a parcel to me from the door mat, but I think that was a one off!

Still

Yeah Smartypants - honestly, once you (and the dog) have grasped the concept (and it's really very simple - not necessarily easy, but it IS simple) then really there's nothing you can't do!

In fact, it really highlights the fact that most training failures are due to the owner not making it clear enough to the dog what is wanted - because once they understand, they learn SO quickly.

Even my older dog, who was 7 when I got her (she's the dam of the younger dog; only meant to get a pup and ended up coming home with Mum as well) picked up "beg" and "twist" (need to add twist to the younger dog's list) and "retrieve" very quickly.

What I found worked best:

Little and often; nice short sessions (it's amazing how much you can do while you wait for the kettle to boil)...

Leave a session on a good note...

Although technically you aren't meant to name the behaviour/add a cue until you're getting the whole behaviour, sometimes it helps to "bridge the gap" when you're teaching certain things.

For instance, when I taught "be shy" I used a sticky label on her nose. Every time she swatted it, I clicked and treated. But WITHOUT the label, she wasn't doing the movement. So I went back to putting the label on, put the cue "Are you shy?" (with head on one side and suitably sympathetic expression) to the behaviour, then used the verbal cue when I took the label away.

Same with recent "limp" - put the verbal cue to it to bridge the gap between supporting her leg and not. That's been the hardest so far TBH, because of having to build muscle memory for the hopping on 3 legs motion. But even then it only took her 3 days to cotton on; we're now just working on distance but I don't want to overdo it and actually MAKE her lame on her other leg LOL!

Seriously, it completely AMAZES me what they can learn if you make it clear enough what you're teaching and that is what the clicker excels at.

Sorry, bit long. Bit evangelical about it

Oh - and latent learning. Which is a posh name for "You know when you're struggling to do something, and you go away and do something else for a bit, and then come back to it and suddenly manage to do it straightaway".

Better to split sessions, with rest (ideally sleeps) in between, because during the rest, their brain is ticking over, processing what they've been doing, and often you'll find that next session they suddenly seem to make a huge leap forward in understanding.

.. oh and it's better to click too early than too late, because if you click too early then chances are you're clicking them for moving TOWARDS whatever you were asking for. Whereas if you click too late you risk clicking them for STOPPING doing whatever it is.

What's the easiest one on your list to start with Kate?

See earlier post, we have sit, down, wait, 'in your bed' and er that's it.!

Dog's currently comatose however!

Smartypants I'd got for paw or high five, high five is very pointless but impressive to 6yr old boys

Totally agree Inthepotty - high five is totally pointless and, to me, fairly unimpressive but kids LOVE it! Because it's interactive, I suppose...

I honestly don't think there's one single easier one Smartypants... pick the one you like the sound of best - or something completely different - because I really think enthusiasm is everything. I'm convinced that part of the reason my dogs seem to learn tricks better than more "ordinary" stuff is that I'm so bloody tickled when they get the hang of it, that it really comes across to them. A really genuine "WOW!! OMG you clever dog!!" along with gales of laughter is far more rewarding to them than a robotic "Good Dog". They can totally tell if you're faking it.

Am totally inspired.

Dog still snoring.

What's the thinking behind clicker training?

This technology can be used very successfully with people do!
I would highly recommend this upcoming event with one of the queens in the field, Theresa McKeon of TAGteach

It is very rare that these people come to the UK> Grab the opportunity with most hands. Theresa is one of the most exciting and dynamic people about. It will be fantastic!

Thunderboltkid - the click happens the INSTANT the behaviour happens. So if you're teaching a sit - click the instant their bum hits the floor.

You're marking, or capturing,the behaviour you want. Think of it as taking a photograph.

What makes them do it - the clicker is a signal that signifies a reward coming.

Think of it like this: imagine that every time the letterbox rattles, you get an envelope containing £100 cash. EVERY TIME. Never bills, never junk mail; just £100. The rattle of the letterbox becomes a VERY welcome sound; it is ALWAYS the precursor to a Very Good Thing.

Now imagine that you suddenly realise that when you sit on a certain chair, the letterbox always rattles. The instant your bum hits the chair, the letterbox goes, signalling yet another £100. Once you worked out what MADE that letterbox rattle/click, you'd be doing it more and more.

Same principle. The dog works out that click = treat (ESSENTIAL that a click is always followed by a treat - that's the deal. Even if you click at the wrong time, always treat afterwards), and works to make that click happen.

Another reason the clicker is so effective is that it is a totally unique sound.

It's perfectly possible to use ANY sound to mark a behaviour, in the same way we use a clicker. But because the clicker is so different to any other sound, and because the dog ONLY hears it when a treat is about to appear (as opposed to the number of times a day it hears our voice), it retains that "special-ness".

Remember - it isn't a remote control. It isn't a cue/command in itself. It is a signal that means "What you were doing at the split second you heard the click WON A PRIZE!!"

NMP - clicker training is just one way of "marking" a behaviour you want.

An animal starts to associate a behaviour with a sound, which in turn signals a reward. That behaviour is therefore likely to increase.

It's how dolphin trainers train dolphins - obviously it's impossible to physically throw a dolphin through a hoop (unless you're Fatima Whitbread) so trainers have to find a way to get the dolphin to WANT to jump through a hoop.

So they blow a whistle and chuck the dolphin a fish. Whistle/fish. Whistle/fish. "Charging" the whistle in the same way as we charge a clicker so the dog learns to want to hear the click.

Then, they'll either lure the dolphin through the hoop, or they'll wait for it to swim through by chance. Bingo - whistle/fish. Dolphin realises what's making the whistle happen, and begins to actively swim through the hoop, again and again...

You can train pretty much any living thing pretty much any behaviour (as long as it's physically capable obviously). Deaf dogs are trained with a flash of light instead of a clicker. Blind and deaf dogs can be trained with a collar that vibrates gently. All the same principle.