Oh bugger - bitch on heat escaped...

[DaisyheadMayzie]

Our 9 month old golden retriever is in season. This was not the plan as she was supposed to be being spayed the week after it started, obviously this was too late. Anyway, she is at the end of the 2nd week and we have coped reasonably well. Yesterday we were out for 4 hours and when we returned home, she greeted us outside. Somehow our near full size retriever had got out through the cat flap - now that would have been a sight to see.

Anyway, it is, I guess, possible (likely?) that she found a male and could be pregnant. We are in the country and there aren't many dogs around, so it is possible that she didn't - is there any way to tell? There doesn't seem much blood now but I think that was easing off anyway. From what I have read, a scan needs to be done after 3 weeks at which point she can take something to abort the puppies. I was hoping to get her spayed as soon as the season finishes - is it possible to get her spayed if she might be pregnant or do we need to find that out and end the pregnancy first?

I will, of course, call the vets on Monday but I am fretting about this so am hoping someone here will know.

And whilst I'm here, what am I looking for to indicate that the heat is finished? I've read they last 3 weeks but the bitch is not usually interested in the first and last week. Is this a definite 3 weeks or should I be waiting for the bleeding to stop?

You need to take her to have an injection. A bit like the morning after pill for dogs. The sooner she has it the better. It is very likely that she is at the optimum time for mating as that is around 14 days some can be earlier and some can be later. Is she still swollen?

Thanks so much - she is still swollen, just not bleeding much. I'll give the vets a call on Monday

They can stop bleeding as soon as they are mated Ive got a bitch that was bleeding loads yesterday mated last night and not much there now she was also mated tonight as well. I think Monday might be to late for it to work!! With out being able to see her i cant tell if she would of been ready to mate. But has the blood changed to very watery?

There is a bit of blood now (I've just looked..) - it is more watery and orangey rather than bright red as it was a few days ago, but I'm not sure what it was like yesterday. I'm in NZ so the escape was Saturday evening, it's Sunday morning now, so vets on Monday would be within 48 hours - is that soon enough?

The jab can be given upto about 3 weeks later, although obviously the sooner the better so monday will be fine. There is obviously no guarantee that it will work, i would ask your vet to check her in few weeks (you may have to pay for a scan?) With such a young dog i wouldnt be happy just to leave it to chance with the injection i would want to be 100% sure. If the injection fails she can be spayed which will obviously terminate any pregnancy. The discharge changes from bright red to a straw colour when they are at their most fertile. So there is a very high change that she will have found a mate.

The injection (Alizin) can be given up to 42 days after. However, the sooner it is done, the more effective it is.

Bitches are usually in season for 21 days or so but it is recommended to keep them away from males for up to 28 days. I know of several dogs that have had (planned) litters resulting from matings after day 21 (up to days 25/26).

I would have the injection done ASAP. It can cause the season to restart so you'll have to keep the cat flap locked when you're out for another 28 days or so.

Thanks so much for all the advice, I feel like a very bad mother and am kicking myself that she was able to escape, especially as we have been so careful up to now (not easy when we don't have a completely dog proof fence).

As we want to get her spayed anyway, could we just spay her when the season finishes, pregnancy or not, and be done with it? The idea of her going straight into another season is making me rather anxious - it has not been easy and she is very miserable at having to stay inside.

May I ask why you didn't get her spayed before she was in heat?

Of course you can ask. When we got her, we were considering having a litter. Then I decided that we wouldn't and spoke to the vet and discussed the pros and cons of spaying before or after the first heat. I had been told that it was better for avoiding mammary tumours and for their mental maturity to wait until after the first heat but the vet said that, although she wasn't keen on spaying very young dogs, by 9 months it would be fine. So she was booked in, but she beat us to it.

Obviously, in hindsight, 9 months was too late - from everyone I have spoken to and what I have read, it is very young for a golden retriever to have their first heat so I don't think I was completely irresponsible, but yes, I am cross with myself that we didn't get it done a fortnight earlier than planned and then we would have avoided all this.

Are you able to help with my last question re spaying at this point in her cycle?

My vet won't spay until they are a year old and have had a season. I have heard of lots of places which will spay from six months, but as I'm generally confident in this vet, I just have to accept this. How unusual is this?

LeBOF: This was what I had been told by my parents vet a few years ago. That was what they did with their dogs, apart from one who was spayed before her first heat as she was 14 months old and they were going on holiday.

My vet said she doesn't like spaying young dogs, like they do at animal shelters, as there is evidence to say that it affects the growth hormones and the mental maturity. But she understands why they do it, and does it herself if necessary. She did ask how Maisie's behaviour was (not too bad for a 9 month old) and she said she would be happy to do it 'from any time now' and to try and make sure it was done before 12 months.

What is your vet's reasoning?

How big is your cat flap She must have been going mad to get out!!

I'd assume as she'd come home she'd found a boy to play with :(

Hopefully the vet will be able to sort it all out for you quickly.

I don't know what truth there is in spaying before their first season not being a good idea for their maturity. I can only add an anecdote - we had our spaniel spayed very young (I was a teenager, not my decision) and she never 'grew up' - she was a 16 year old puppy.

I love GR's :)

OP, it was said earlier that yes, your bitch can be spayed soon, and any existing pregnancy would be terminated then. I can confirm from sad experience that this is true, but the vet might want to wait a few weeks.

Just to chime in with our experience, our bitch was spayed at approx 5 and a half months as we were about to go away and I didn't want her in kennels unspayed. She is now a very relaxed and mature 9 month old :)

Not that this helps the OP. When I used to work at a vets many years ago, the vet routinely carried out abortions if he found puppies inside when he was carrying out spays - such were the strength of his feeling about the number of unwanted dogs already in Britain! He never told the owners as he assumed that by bringing their mutt in for a spay, they weren't interested in raising a litter of puppies....

With regards to getting the OP's bitch spayed, I think you need to wait a certain amount of time after a season ends otherwise there is a risk of complications and it makes the surgery more difficult. I'm sure your own vet will advise when you take her for the injection.

Thanks again everyone.

Chipping: I thought the cat flap was a normal sized one but now am going to see if there are smaller ones - if a GR can fit through it then our cats should be able to get through a mouse hole!! I am suspicious that a boy came calling and in her desperation to meet her beau she managed to get her big body through the cat flap - I have no idea how she did it.

The dog that my parents had spayed before her first heat also did not 'grow up', she was a very naughty dog, but maybe that was just the way she was, who knows....

Old Lady: thanks, I had seen the comment that if the injection doesn't work she could be spayed. I'm just wondering if it would be easier on her if she was spayed now, before going through a few weeks of pregnancy - wouldn't it be a much easier operation if it was done sooner rather than later. Also my friends dog got an infection from the injection and ended up having emergency surgery.

I have just called our breeder and she said when she was in a similar situation, her vet said whilst there was red blood they couldn't get pregnant. It goes completely clear when they are fertile. On close examination, Maisie still has red blood. I will check this with our vet but fingers crossed she isn't pregnant.

Well apparently a mouse can get through a hole that is as small as a bic pen? (If you remember those) so I guess if we scale up from there?? It's a shame you don't have CCTV it would make very funny viewing I'm sure

We're in Cambridge - it's gorgeous, I love it! And not too far from the big city - we were in Auckland a couple of days ago to see Eddie Izzard. Have you been away long? Any plans of return?

My first thought was OMG did I really go out and leave the door open??! But no, the flappy bit of cat flap was on the ground and there are two small cracks in the glass door (rest of cat flap is in tact though). Could have been worse I suppose, she could have smashed the door and injured herself. I know what you mean though, the mental images of her squeezing herself through the cat flap are quite unbelievable - and surely would take quite a bit of planning, one leg at a time, twist the shoulders, breathe in. Just bizarre.

Your breeders advice about not being able to get pregnant when the blood is red is bollocks, quite frankly. If the science of dig breeding were that simple then the (experienced) breeders I know wouldn't spend time and money on tests to try to pinpoint ovulation and maximise the chances of conception.

You could just have her spayed now but it is a riskier operation during the season when hormones are at a peak, which is why the optimum time for a spay is at the midpoint between seasons when hormones are at their lowest levels. That's not to mention the detrimental mental and physical side effects of spaying too young.

Daisy, I don't know why my vet said to wait a few weeks to spay my pregnant bitch, it was years ago and I don't remember if he gave a reason. May have had something to do with hormones, a higher risk of bleeding? Sorry not to be more help.

Lots of vets dont like to spay to young as it can lead to spay incontinence. I agree she is very young for her first season, normally larger breed dogs are older.

Personally i would get the jab and then wait and see, like others have said to spay her now would be a bigger op with more risks.

Also agree that what her breeder has said is rubbish, different dogs (of same breed) are most fertile at different times, usually a bitch will know this and will turn her tale. The fact she shoved herself through a cat flap to get to the boy! is in my mind a clear indication that she was ready. The fresh blood you can see will more than likely be down to the mating, breeders normally hold and support the dogs during the tie, to help prevent any trauma.

Cambridge is lovely :)

I've been away years now and no plans to go back to live. I miss some things, mostly people, but love my life here too... it's hard.

Maisie is very lucky not to have smashed the glass and hurt herself. It's really hard to imagine how she managed it, as you say, a lot of co-ordination required!

Let us know how you get on at the vets.

Thanks again! I have now spoken to my own vet and her recommendation is to wait until 28 days after the escape then get her scanned. If she is pregnant they will spay her then. If not pregnant, wait at least two more weeks and then get her spayed. Apparently by the time they are 4 weeks pregnant, everything has firmed up again inside so spaying is safe. Spaying immediately is not advisable as during heat, and for a few weeks afterwards if not pregnant, the uterus is swollen and full of blood. My vet also said that it would be 'unlikely but not impossible' for her to get pregnant whilst still bleeding, even though going by average days she's bang on fertile.

Looks like I'll be crossing my fingers for the next 4 weeks then...

Chipping: it is difficult, living on the opposite side of the world, although I couldn't imagine living in the UK again. But then my parents moved here a couple of years ago and DH is a kiwi, so I guess we're pretty much settled now. Just got to convince my sister to emigrate too!

Oh. Did you ask the vet about the injection? It would seem kinder, to me, to give her the injection (the equivalent of the morning after pill) than speying her with puppies in place (a termination)...

Poor Maisie :(

Has your sister been over for a holiday yet

We had our dog spayed before her first season as we were due to go away and didn't want her to have be on heat while we were on holiday.

Our vet is Australian and he said that it was common in Australia to have the dogs spayed before their first season, but that she might not develop emotionally. On the other hand, it reduces the risk of (I think) breast cancer so has advantages too.

Daphne was fine after the op and is a very relaxed, chilled dog.

Hope that your dog is ok. Would have loved to see her squeeze out of the cat flap. Is this her? <a class="break-all" href="http://www.google.ch/imgres?q=dog+stuck+in+cat+flap&hl=de&nord=1&biw=1600&bih=785&tbm=isch&tbnid=k4sWxImbviGz9M:&imgrefurl=www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php%3Fp%3D379310%26sid%3D78256c8d16bbd766680b8825b7df1647&docid=PJIHsZSfgnosxM&imgurl=www.retrobike.co.uk/forum/files/stupid_dog_stuck_in_catflap_june_08_142.jpg&w=653&h=490&ei=5OrATvDYGtHysgakiIT4Ag&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=647&vpy=285&dur=91&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=116&ty=106&sig=103894265151616174179&page=1&tbnh=130&tbnw=182&start=0&ndsp=34&ved=1t:429,r:11,s:0" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">dog