Rottweiler v. CKCS - what should I have done?

[mamalocco]

I have a one year old Cavalier King Charles Spaniel - she is tiny and very submissive. I have no issues with letting her run off lead as she has excellent recall. She is friendly with people and dogs and although she runs up to other dogs, she stops a few feet away and strikes up a submissive pose until they come over to her. She is used to big dogs (all dogs are big to her!) playing a little rough so I didn't have any concerns when she went over to a rottweiler today.

I saw a park truck driving up the path towards us so called her over to me. She came and laid down at my feet and as I bent down to put her lead on the owner of the rottie said he worked with dogs and I shouldn't pick up a dog that was scared. (She wasn't scared, she always approaches in that submissive way). I was just explaining to the owner that I wasn't going to pick her up just put her lead on when his dog pounched on mine and bit her. She ran away, I called her, she stopped and started to come back but the rottie ran after her and got hold of her by the neck. When it let go, she was off and ran out of the park. I ran after her but couldn't find her. After 10 minutes a lady appeared with her in her arms and she was fine.

The other owner was calling his dog back (which ignored him) and started shouting my dog hadn't been socialised properly because his dog had never done anything like this before.

Now I know if the rottie had intended to seriously damage my dog she would be dead - I know it was 'playing' but the episode has upset me - when she ran out of the park I expected to find her under the wheels of a car.

How should I have handled this? I don't want to feel apprehensive letting her off the lead.

:( I don't know about how to handle it but wanted to post in sympathy. I hope your dog doesn't lose her good socialisation. My CKCS was excellently socialised with big dogs etc until he was bitten and is now much more nervous and will freeze and refuse to move and on one occasion ran home all freaked out. His recall is now unreliable if there are other dogs around so he's on the lead a lot.

I don't really know what else you could have done because it doesn't sound like you did anything wrong - except be in the vicinity of an arrogant know-it-all who wasn't in control of his dog. The onus is surely on the owners of large dogs to make sure they play nicely (most do, IME, but my last dachs had his eye hurt by a playful boxer - wanted to kill every boxer he met thereafter!)

Thank goodness the lady found her for you - that must have been a horrible 10 minutes.

i dont think you could have done anything differently TBH. as for the man trying to say it was yor dog that caused it!! and he says he works with dogs?? his dog should have returned at first recall. you did nothing wrong. hope your doggy is ok.

Thanks for replies - just wanted to vent I think. When I got back home I left puppylocco indoors and ran back to the park with my camera and note book ready to confront the owner but obviously he was long gone by then.

I think my fear is that, like flowery, my dog is now going to freak out with other dogs. I took her to puppy socialisation classes, did all the recall training and I really enjoy walking her off lead over the park. I don't want my fear of it happening again to filter down to her.

Thanks again
x

Poor you, and poor your-dog - I don't think you could have done anything differently either. The man sounds like a defensive twat.

If the Rottie was really just playing, hopefully the incident won't have traumatised your dog as much as an attack would have done - but still, sounds like she had a big fright

My dog isn't small - medium, I suppose - but he is young, and pretty submissive like yours, and has been very scared a couple of times when rough-housed by bigger dogs. That said, the only dogs that have actually snapped at him have been small ones - but he seems more nervous of the big ones anyway.

Hope she's ok - its a hard call as to when to take precautions and put dog on lead, especially if 99% of the dogs you meet are friendly, but I hope neither she nor you are put off playtime when out. I also hope you never see that idiot and his dog again

OMG how horrendous.

First of all do not doubt your instincts. Your initial reaction was correct to protect your dog by putting on her lead. Never listen to other dog owners about your dog, you know them best - trust and act on your instincts always.

I had a client whose papillon was crushed to death by over friendly labs running at her and just bumping into her - you will need to protect the little dogs from the big guys.

Hopefully if you gently pick the dogs you socialize with over the next few weeks, eg ones you know and owners you can trust she should be fine. For the next few walks if you are uncomfortable put on a big smiley voice and change direction, choose the encounters you are comfortable with.

Dogs do bite each other in play, my two staffies do all the time but never enough to puncture the skin, i assume your dog wasn't bleeding as you haven't mentioned that, if the rottie was attacking your dog would be dead so i assume he was playing, if your dog is as timid as that you shouldn't have had him off the lead. My dh has had a similar experence with an owner of a small dog that got scared by our dogs, who just wanted to play, the owner picked it up and was consequently bitten, she then tried to tell my dh that ours were the dangerous ones even when he pointed out it was her dog that had bitten her and that ours had done nothing.

I have a HUGE problem with dogs free running in public places. This is why.

Grrrrrr

Sorry, no help what so ever to you, but wouldn't it be nice if people just took responsibility? I don't care if their dog is 'friendly', if he/she is big and boisterous, slobbery, or jumpy, it's anti-social.

Your dog was scared so ran off, his dog supposedly 'playing' ran after & didn't recall, he was wrong and needs to have his dog on a lead or train it better.

If my (medium) dog was intimidating a smaller dog/cat rabbit/whatever, or even large but nervous dog, & I couldn't get it to come back, thats my fault.

I'd probably report to local dog warden if there is one.

Babyonbord - so if an unruly, boisterous 13 year old was "playing" with your toddler in a way that frightened him/her, that would be OK would it?

OP - sympathies. Hopefully your dog has enough good experiences of other dogs "in the bank" to counteract this bad experience. Might be nice to seek out some well-behaved, calm dogs of varying sizes (contact a few training classes maybe?) to hopefully get him a bit more confident. I can't see what else you could have done under the circumstances, other than perhaps leave him offlead. I can see why you put him onlead, but often when they're onlead they a) Feel less able to defend themselves and b) Feel forced, by the lead, to hold themselves in a more upright, confident posture (and prevented from displaying the submissive posture that they want to display) which can then lead on to the other dog assuming they're more confident than they are.

That doesn't excuse the other dog/owner AT ALL and it doesn't mean you did the wrong thing. I've had my fair share of ill-mannered offlead dogs (and their ill-mannered owners) and it's infuriating and can be scary.

No but we are not talking about a toddler we are talking about another dog and if i'm not much mistaken there is a big difference between the two

The gentleman you had the interaction with was right you do need to socialise your dog, if you had done this from an early age it wouldn't be timid and it wouldn't have run off. In my experience it is small timid dogs that often end up being antisocial as they get away with far more than a larger dog would. I have a friend who has a terrier and i wouldn't allow it anywhere near my children or my dogs as it does bite which is a direct result of it not being properly socialised as a puppy.

Babybord you're not mistaken that there's a difference between a dog and a toddler. You're mistaken about pretty much everything else on this thread though.

babyonbord read the op, her dog is socialized, her dog approached the Rottie as it is used to big dogs.

The op called her dog back to put it on the lead as there was a vehicle coming.

The Rottie owner should have called his dog back at the same time, for the same reason and if it had been as well trained as the op's dog then there wouldn't have been a problem.

op you did nothing wrong, try and continue to walk your dog with confidence and mix with some known dogs, I'm sure your dog will take her lead from you and will hopefully bounce back.

OP, if you can, try to go out and meet people you know with friendly, non bouncy large dogs (like mine) so that your dog knows that not all big dogs are hoodlums.

This dog was out of order, playing or not it overstepped the mark with what your dog wanted and its owner was being a twat.

It doesnt matter if your dog is submissive or not, the rottie was in the wrong.

ive had many a dog go for my cocker spaniel who is very much like yours and is very very submissive,

you did nothing wrong op, some dog owners need training, x

xx

Sending best wishes to you and to your poor lovely dog. Firstly, you did absolutely NOTHING WRONG, in fact you are a model dog owner, who was being responsible and making sure your dog was safe when a vehicle approached.

A couple of things in addition to the (mainly ) very sensible suggestions you've had so far. I'd report this to your local Dog Warden and ask them politely if they can step up patrols in this park. It may well be when you report it that you find that other dog owners have had problems with this dog/owner. Also, make a formal complaint to the Park Manager - again, it may be important as part of a bigger picture.

When people have Rotties they need to remember that they are very big dogs, compared to most other breeds and simply barging over, and even "play" fighting can be intimidating, painful and dangerous for smaller, more vulnerable dogs. Our lovely elderly small greyhound bitch has arthritis in her shoulder and has now become very defensive when out around other dogs purely because of several bad experiences with being bowled over by dogs who are "just playing" . Cannonball Labs are by far the worse and they can really hurt her.

Secondly, if this idiot is a regular in the park at this time, I would do everything possible to avoid the park at this time or to go to a different park. I know, you shouldn't have to, but I take the view that life is too short for avoidable hassle, and another incident like this could either traumatise or really hurt your lovely little dog.

Hope you are both over this very soon.

Neither dogs were on a leash in a public area and I understand your dog was well behaved but it ran and ignored you. God forbid if your lovely dog had got out onto a road as you would be sued if it had caused an accident. So you have no come back with regards to reporting the owner of the rotweiler. If you had gotten the other owners details and reported it to the local dog warden, you would both be in trouble.

GDL, but having a dog off the lead in a park is not a problem per se and is not against the law. It is against the law if you are on the public highway, or if there is a Dog Control Order in place (depending on the type of DCO) but most DWs would expect a dog to be off lead in a park, unless the dog is under some other form of legal restriction e.g. has already been subject to legislation and must be walked on the lead and muzzled for instance. The key in terms of the legislation is being "dangerously out of control" - I'd venture to suggest that the OP's dog was not in this instance.

Unfortunately being sued if your dog causes an accident is quite another matter and is why third party insurance and legal cover is essential for dog owners. No win no fee solicitors are now a very unwelcome fact of British life.

I agree scuttlebutter but you can not have your dog off the lead and then have problems with another dog again off the lead, then expect to be able to report them for not having there dog under control. I understand it was the other parties fault but the other dog took off as well so there was no control by either party.

If an accident had occurred then the insurers would not pay out as the person was not in control of the dog at the time.

I really don't think you did anything wrong at all. I really can't understand why anyone would think you did. Even with the best recall, a small dog being chased by a bigger dog is going to run . From my viewpoint, even if the rottie was just "playing", to suddenly pounce on a smaller dog and hold it by the neck isn't particularly sociable playing, as a first gesture.

One of the first things I would do, OP, is have a really good look at your dog, and keep an eye on her over the next couple of days, as I 've seen lots of cases where owners thought their dog hadn't been hurt, and a couple of days later the dog became unwell, and the area was swollen, and further examination showed a suppurating puncture wound. Not trying to worry you, but be vigilant.

I've been out with my dogs in various parks etc for the last 16 years, and I'd be pretty peed off if another dog behaved like this, regardless of my dogs' behaviour. He is blaming YOUR dog for HIS dog's behaviour? Crazy! I did once have my oldboy attacked by 2 labs when he was 14 and on the lead because he was deaf and tottery. Apparently that was MY fault, because he was on a lead

I think you were pretty restrained towards the other owner, tbh! I really hope your poor wee dog is ok and doesn't develop a fear of bigger dogs