Puppy off lead

[Skyrg]

Sorry, bit long but need advice.
Our 4 month old (ish) puppy has been let off the lead a few times in a very safe field.

We keep a close eye on him when he's off lead, and if he notices another dog or person we call him back to prevent him shooting off and if necessary put the lead back on. It's usually not necessary.
However, we've had two occasions where he's run off and can't be called back. One was a dog (fortunately friendly) which he encountered after getting excited over another dog.
The other was when a woman with buggy and young boy came round the corner unexpectedly and he shot off. Wouldn't come back when called. He didn't jump up, but the little boy was obviously nervous. Fortunately, again, the woman was very nice when we apologised. I was fairly horrified, don't want him running up to random people and potentially scaring them/scaring children/getting muddy paws on people/being kicked away.

We practised calling him back a lot before letting him off the lead, and he is usually reliable, it's just when surprised by dogs/children appearing that he will run off.
We've been giving him treats when he comes when called, and playing games where he has to come to us when we're hiding, which all works really well. It's only when he's distracted it doesn't work.

We're working on training him not to jump up at people. It's not going well, he leaps at random strangers in the street even when on a really short lead. He has never been mistreated by us or anyone else, so he thinks everyone is a friend. I'm hoping that training him not to jump up will naturally lead into not running at people in the field (or at least approaching, stopping a distance away and waiting to be invited).

Any advice on training not to jump up and getting him to come back more reliably?
We did wonder about a dog whistle, whether the sound would carry further and get his attention (our whistling skills are a bit poor).

You have to carry seriously tempting and smelly treats with you and practice recall ALL THE TIME, giving the treats often (every time or most of the time) to start with and reducing them as time passes. This has to be something really nice (cocktail sausage cubes, cheese, some dogs like dried liver pieces) and NOT usual kibble or carrots or other healthy "crap" iykwim (I have seen that also!). The treat has to be worthwhile for your dog to come to you when he is super interested in all the things that happen around him... you must adopt serious bribery... Call him not only he sees another dog/person, but when he is just wondering around. Never put him on the lead after he is called, never reprimand him for not coming back straight away (he won't understand), be loudly enthusiastic every single time. He will learn that coming to you = happy you plus something seriously tasty.

Dog whistle is worth it only if the problem is not the attention but distance...but you can get one anyway to try out ACME gundog whistles

Regarding jumping up the same strategy applies. Try to reward him every time he doesn't jump to the family members and visitors. Be strict with the others, they must NOT stroke, laugh or reward any other way jumping up (it is not cute when he grows up!). Keep a jar with treats buy the front door and everytime someone comes in ask them to offer the treat after the dog sits nicely... It is harder with the strangers, best way here is avoid close proximity or if you cannot avoid it, distract him with nice smelly sausage...

Skyrg, we have the same training issues (obviously!) with our 6 month old (ish) pup.

I practise recall with him all the time on walks (when he is off-lead), regardless of there being kids/dogs around or not. In fact, to start with I just always put him on the lead when I spotted toddlers or people with food: the two things he loves to jump up at to lick! I've only just started leaving him off lead nearish young children now - and I keep him focussed on me, coming for treats etc.

I'm not sure he could have done it at 4 months, but then we've only had him since 5 months. The jumping up is slowly getting better, but he too adores people and just wants to get attention - and he still slips up when over-excited, or hungry, or just back in from a walk (with my kids). That said, he doens't leap at passing strangers, only those who give him any attention.

Will watch your thread with interest, but have a hunch its just a case of ongoing practise, patience, and time!

Thanks bemybebe.
We have been using treats, and he does like them. Can't give him cheese, he chews it for 5 minutes. We're currently treating every time he comes to us as I think it should only be reduced when he's reliable. We call him back regularly, and he will come. I call him when he's running and he will come, it's just when there are people/dogs :( He LOVES children.
Have not been reprimanding when he comes back (even when it's bloody tempting!), he's always praised for coming back even when it takes a while.

I was wondering about the whistle because he is usually so good at recall, except if he's started running. He has different types of run, and the one where he wants to get to someone is like an avalanche, no hesitating or pausing if we call, so I wondered if he might hear a dog whistle better (over unreliable human whistling) or it might get through to him, iyswim.

We are trying to train him not to jump up at home. The trouble is that he's a puppy, he's only cat sized and he's cute and fluffy and nearly every stranger will stop to stroke him - I was even told by a guy picking up rubbish on the field that he should be in films. This was after the bloody dog had run around him in excitement and wrapped us both up in his lead.

x-post - he sounds gorgeous

I bet time will help....

You can try long training lines (15m and longer), but they are rather tedious to carry around, but very effective in retaining full control.

I would try to find something that he really likes (maybe it is a special toy?? jsut keep it "special", ie only allowed to play when on walks and only when he is a good boy).

I have heard of people training with spray collars and similar (electric shock) but I am very much against them, I would strongly advise you not to touch them. They are v likely to lead to behavioral problems later on.

And he is good at recall when not around children because he is a puppy and his attention is elsewhere. So whilst I would not be super hopeful about the whistle, there is absolutely no harm at all in training him to come back to whistle...

he is just a baby, excellent recall will come with time and lots of treats and patience.

Get yourself a very long line and use that for now, I wouldnt rely on a 4 month old puppy not to get over excited and bolt when it saw something more interesting that its owner. Find what really excites your dog, toys/treats/praise and use that with the long line.

Ah, another reason why he may "not hear you" is because if you call him a lot without any reaction on his side and your voice becomes part of background noise iykwim.

Imagine someone constantly shouting "sky, sky come here, here, [goddamit] sky, come here, come here, skaaaaaay!!!!!!!!" it very quickly transforms into yet another noise.

If he clearly cannot hear you/does not react, stop calling, come closer and try again. Try to never use a command more then twice or it becomes devalued. I call the name once and then if the dog registers that I address her, I give a command (come, sit, down...)

Elibean - so.. so it does get better? Strangely he's not that interested in food, just people. Especially children. Perhaps they taste better?
The leaping at strangers is a big problem. We have to keep him on a really really short lead (like, against our ankles type of short) and yet he still manages to jump. Even though we've got him held so tightly he falls short by a metre, he still tries every bloody time.

bemybebe - He has an extendable lead which is something like 16ft, that's been useful because he could run but still be under control, and we could practise calling him back. Don't want to get a longer one because he'll trip everyone up :) Special toy is a good idea but not sure it'll work, he loves fetch at home but tends to abandon things on the field. He's trained us to fetch though...
And don't worry, no shock collars or choke chains here. He may drive me nuts but everything he does is understandable, he's only little and it is our responsibility to teach him what we expect of him. Hurting him isn't going to help him learn anything other than to fear us and that people are unpredictable and a threat.

We might get a whistle though, if only for those cold winter days when you just can't manage a decent whistle!

We don't tend to shout repeatedly, usually whistle to get his attention and then give the command. He usually comes back to the sound of the whistle anyway, without the command.

Skyrg, I blardy hope so am sure it does

4 months is very little. What breed is he? Some grow up faster than others...

Cross breed. I don't think either of the breeds are known for overwhelming intelligence...
He is very bouncy, very affectionate and loves to chew things. Typical puppy really. Not too fast a learner and a bit stubborn... he will refuse to sit if the ground is a bit chilly! Roads are fun, we're learning road safety. He is very good unless someone he loves is on the other side of the road, there are people walking past, a slight breeze, a cat, a leaf blows past, loud noises...

sounds like you have a smashing pup sky!

I can get very annoyed with dogs that come bounding up to my dog that's on the lead. It's completely fine if they come up nicely, do some nose sniffing and my girl knows everything's ok- BUT if not, my dog gets very scared, and it's fair enough really, because she can't protect herself on the lead- her protection default is to run- Ive seen it myself at dog socialisation class- she's a greyhound and knows she can outrun almost anything. Dogs in general just do not feel safe when they are on a lead.

If there's a dog bounding up to us and doesn't slow down/ my dog doesn't pick up signals that it's going to be ok, one of 3 things will happen 1) I make a snap decision that I don't want to risk my dog being torn apart so i squirt the bounding dog in the face with water to stop it in its tracks (this happens a lot) 2) I don't have water with me and my girl decides she doesn't like the situation- either barks and growls rather loudly at the dog or backs away and I step in. My little doggie is not aggressive AT ALL but can be quite scary with the loud vicious sounding barks and snarls, it's her way of saying stay away i don't feel safe 3) I pick up the mad puppy/small dog that's trying to play with my dog and hand it back to the owner saying that my doggie really can't take things jumping at her face and scratching/nipping her.

Sorry this is long!! I'm just trying to explain as an owner who can't let dog off the lead because of the rabbit obsession bad recall, that it's really hard to shoulder responsibility for both dogs. I would LOVE my dog to be off the lead- I know everything would be fine and she could take care of herself then.

damn that was the wrong thread sorry everyone!!!! eeek blush blush blush

But quite relevant though Holly!
Good example of exactly what I worry about with our pup - that he will run up to a nervous or aggressive dog (or owner). He's obviously not dangerous, but he is bouncy. We met a fat old cavalier (poor thing weighed at least twice what it should), who was not impressed when he tried to bounce on it. It was very patient, but obviously just wanted to be left alone. I also don't want him to be kicked by someone :( would have no problem with someone squirting him with water though, might wash off some of the mud
There are dogs walked on the field that I think are guard dogs, kept very close to their owners on a short lead and I appreciate their owners keeping them under control, don't want to undo their hard work with my naughty puppy.

All sounds v familiar, Sky! My pup, for some reason (scaredy dog) doesn't tend to go up to dogs on leads. He was fostered with loads of older dogs, and I think has a healthy respect for dogs that don't want to/can't play....at least, I hope so.

I am careful of him around dogs on leads, do'nt take chances, but so far the only dogs on leads he has met have been when he has been onlead himself - and the owner is happy, as am I.

We must be lucky around here, in 3 weeks of twice daily walks we have not had any dogs run up to us when Mouse has been on the lead - they just don't. Otherwise I would be tempted to carry squirty water too

my boy is 19 months old now and was great at recall as a puppy but as he got older into teen years he got worse. His obbession in other doggies, and no amount of fun and treats will get him back However, we brought a long lead a while back. I will drop the lead when we are out so we can play but weirdly enough if its still connected he will come back 99% of the time, but as soon as its unclipped his off

def get a long lead.

We have quite a few dogs coming up to us loose while he's on the lead. Very embarrassing since he's really eager until they come up to him, and then he cries

The trouble with the long lead is he runs off and then nearly strangles himself when he gets to the limit of the lead. He's got a harness, which prevents him breaking his neck, but he is still shocked every time he meets the limit.
Also, doesn't yours trip people up? Our puppy on his 16ft lead loves to run behind people and trip them up, or run round and round to tangle you... one time he managed to tangle me, another owner, himself and another dog in the lead. Although the other dog helped that time.

I am dreading doggy teen years. I am so glad he's not a big dog, at least he can't knock people over.

Ours is a 10 foot one, I think. He doesn't tend to tangle too much as we have a massive field that is fairly empty most of the time. If there are other dogs about we are playing with I will unclip him as he will stay with who ever he is playing with BUT have to keep an eye for other passing dog

Just back from a walk (was meant to have first walk with our old doggy walker, lovely man, but refused to budge without me so I went with them till they got more familiar ) and happy to report the only doggy that wasn't happy at being run up to - not on the lead, but old and sore from arthritis - growled and Mouse simply backed off.

The lovely couple with the arthritic little dog were apologetic, bless them, but I told them their dog was quite right - pups need to learn to respect their elders! And he is learning, fast. Recalling him whilst playing with another pup, there's a challenge I have no idea if time will help...

Sky, the image of your pup tangling people and dogs in a big bundle of lead-riddled fur and limbs made me laugh out loud - I've not used a long lead yet, but can imagine!

Have just gone for a walk with puppy, did not go well :(
We let him off briefly but put him back on when we saw another dog and couldn't let him off again because there were too many children around, little toddlers who he would have knocked over.
He encountered a very badly behaved off-lead beagle which jumped all over him, he was obviously terrified (doing back flips to get away type thing) and the beagle's owner was running around trying to catch him. Pup wrapped us all up in the lead in fright and nearly neutered himself with it getting caught between his legs. I would have taken his lead off so at least he could run if he wanted to, but we were near a road.

On the plus side, we met another off lead dog (not sure what it was but it was huge) and it was very patient and well behaved. Walked calmly up to puppy, they sniffed each other's noses and the other dog ambled off. Puppy completely calm.

There aren't any puppy classes near us, but he obviously needs to be introduced to other dogs in a safe environment, looks like I'm going to have to invite the local dogs round.

I think a whistle is good because when you call your dog and he doesn't come straight back to you it's then hard to keep the worry/frustration/crossness out of your voice when you call them again. A whistle cuts through all the background noise and is just a whistle so doesn't sound cross even on the 5th blow!

We have a 6 month old beagle and she is pretty good off the lead but I do put her back on when I see other dogs approaching. I let her greet other dogs but just briefly before she gets past the polite hello and moves onto the jumping all over them. I think it's important for puppies to get used to quiet greetings and then moving away as that then becomes the norm for when you let them greet dogs off the lead when they are a bit older.

Ah Sky, poor pup! Sounds stressful - poor you, too.

If you were in SW London, I'd organize a puppy playdate with you

We did invite the cocker over the road a couple of times when we first had Mouse, it gave him confidence for sure. She's now his new BF, though has more stamina than he does when it comes to mad play-fighting.