Are crates cruel or what?

[MissVerydead]

DP reckons they are; I would quite like to get one now whilst pup is 15 weeks old to try and help with toilet training.

It's alright for him, as he's not the one cleaning the floor every morning. Pup is really good during the day and 9/10 times goes outside.

If you were planning on using it as a punishment, or a place to lock the dog 24 hours a day, then yes, it would be cruel.

On the other hand, if you're planning on using it as a safe haven for the dog, somewhere that he can go when he is stressed, a lovely place to sleep, a place where there are treats, then no.

If pup is happy to sleep in it overnight, it would probably help. On the other hand, our younger dog just could not hold on at night for the first 6 months and crating her made no difference. I just had to wait for maturity to do its job. We used puppy pads (which may have made it take longer) and the vax was our friend!

We have a crate, btw. Both of our dogs love it. It really belongs to our elder dog, but our younger dog (who initially showed no interest in it) seems to have taken it over. I wish we had room for two.

Our dog was adopted from RSPCA at 12 months old. The RSPCA actually recommend crates. Our dog loves his (he knows the dc's are not allowed to disturb him there) and if we go away on holiday the crate has an advantage that many holiday cottages say dogs can not be left uncontained, but can be left in a crated, so if you need to pop out for a short while you can do so whilst knowing doggy won't destroy the cottage and is happy and used to being in his crate.

If you make the crate a safe and cosy place for the dog to retreat to, encourage him to associate it with treats and relaxation, and don't leave him in it for hours and hours on end, no, they're not cruel at all. Both my dogs have crates and it saved my sanity, knowing I could put the puppy in there for a break while I did other things, and not come back to find everything chewed or trashed. And it speeded the house training up. They both still like to sleep in their crates, and don't even need to be told to go in when I'm going out - they bounce into them, waiting for their Kong & QVC session...

My 12 week old pup likes to wee in her bed, so though I have a crate, and she uses it for sleeping in when she wants to, she still pees in it. She also hasn't realised yet that peeing and pooing are things that you do outside. She has weeed outside a few times, but has never pooed anywhere except for our kitchen floor downstairs and the spare bedroom where her crate is upstairs! I veer between despairing and wondering how the hell I can put it right! In fact, that's just prompted me to go 'trainer' searching again :)

I've never crated - I just PERSONALLY don't like them... I also don't have the berluddy room for two with dogs the size I have.

If they work for people - brilliant - we've got the corner of the lounge in front of the Sky+ box down by the side of the sofa (so it's sheltered from people walking by) as a "do not disturb" zone for the dogs without a huge lump of metal to trip over (moved in a year ago and we're already dangerously close to out-growing this house - sigh)! If we need a "safe" area to restrict the dogs to when we go out - we use the kitchen which is a hideous 1980s beige ensemble so unlikely to be ruined by the dogs anyway. Ours both came to us as adult dogs though so we missed the puppy piddle phase.... no way on this earth could I cope with a puppy!

I think sometimes they're overused, used wrongly, used for far far too long in one go and regarded as a miracle fix-it though.

I was thinking it would be a safe haven for him, as I have two littlies who are a bit wild!

He is absolutley great with them and loves a play, bless him, and when it gets a bit much, I've been teaching them the "statues" game so he loses interest after a bit.

The thing is NDN have a HUGE dog they crate all.the.time (in a crate that's too small :( ) for no real reason, and I think that's really put DP off, as it's sending the poor thing loopy.

I don't think it would be a miracle cure for the toilet training by any stretch, I just wondered if it would help any during the night. I'm home all day so the daytime isn't a problem- he's really good.

I think I might get one as he's 15 weeks nearly. I'll try and convince DP to get on board! Thanks for your advice.

Sooooo, I've just looked at a few, and I think if we put it in the living room as opposed to the kitchen for a bit while he gets used to it, and not shut the door???

I have no idea, the concept is very new to me!

We have ours in the porch/utility room which is just off the kitchen. A bit quieter but nearby if that makes sense as I am often working in the kitchen.

At first we just left the door open day and night but she would go in to sleep as that is where the bedding is. Recently (in the last month) we have started shutting the door when she is in - first overnight when she is quiet anyway and now whenever I see she is sleepy and goes in. Seems to be working well and should make it easier when we go to visit family. I let her out as soon as she wakes and lets me know! (But not while she is actually barking - she gives a woof to say I'm awake and then waits quietly for me to finish what I'm doing and let her out)

She is 5months now and shutting her in seems to be really helping with house training. She is now dry overnight and because she is having several proper sleeps instead of lots of little ones I know she will need taking out when she wakes and then she is OK playing inside for ages now.

We have a crate for SmallDog because he has separation anxiety issues (he was a troubled rescue boy). He loves the crate - however I often find BigDog and TheCat in there as well.

We leave the crate open when we are at home - if we are popping out I only have to say 'in your crate' and he runs in happily. I would love to leave him loose but he panics and wees everywhere and destroys things.
If he is left in the crate he just sleeps - BigDog goes into the same room and lies next to the crate when we are out.

Before we had SmallDog I wasn't sure about the value of a crate but it has proved to be invaluable. I f we ever have another dog I would definately crate train.

We have a huge crate (secondhand, or would have got next size down) for our rescue 6mo old pup, and as no handy utility or porch its in the play/TV room - which is open plan with the kitchen.
Mouse sleeps in it at night, has started going in there for sleeps when extra tired and wanting to avoid kids (which is partly why I wanted one) and has been in with a stuffed puppy kong a few times for up to 1 hr when I've needed to go to the school or something. Otherwise, he clearly feels less secure and tends to chew random objects [smlie]

Mind you, as Mouse was in a pound for 3 months, then slept in crate in foster care for another month, he's well used to it. I figured he'd need one for his own sense of security, to start with.

Either way, I suppose a crate is only cruel if used cruelly - just as a bedroom can be used for peace and positive time-out, or for solitary confinement.