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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Original poster

To out or not to pug

41 replies

maypole1 · 21/08/2011 14:22

thinking about getting a pug cross but have comrade across a pure pug breed the reason I was going for a pug cross is to see off some off the health defects pugs can have .

Am I correct?

OP posts:
LeBJOF · 21/08/2011 14:23

I have no idea what you are talking about, sorry. Can you repost?

happywheezer · 21/08/2011 14:25

My SIL has two pugs. They are a nightmare to be honest for their health issues.
One can only be fed chicken as his gut won't take anything else.Cancerous skin tags. Just generaaly high maintenance but she loves them and despite this they are lovely dogs.
A pug cross with what?

Original poster
maypole1 · 21/08/2011 15:03

A pug cross with a shiz tu or a puganeese or a pugadoddle

So it seems not to pure pug at the moment as I thought defo a cross breed

OP posts:
Original poster
maypole1 · 21/08/2011 15:05

LeBJOF basically wanted to know if I am correct in thinking not to get a pure pug because of its pure health and to instead get a pug cross to insure a healthier dog

OP posts:
cookielove · 21/08/2011 15:05

My friend has a pug crossed with a jack russell, he is very bouncy, and much larger then the usual pugs, although he looks very much like a pug. He is very lovely. As much as i know he has suffered no health issues. She adores him.

Joolyjoolyjoo · 21/08/2011 15:19

I'm torn on this one. I am all for hybrid vigour, and crossbreeds (especially Heinz 57s) are generally far healthier than their pedigree counterparts BUT crossing one pedigree dog with another WON'T necessarily ensure a dog with fewer health problems.

Pugs do have health problems as a breed. Good, experienced breeders do their best to ensure that the matings they use will try to combat some of those problems, but of course they can't be wiped out altogether, as many of the problems are to do with the actual breed conformation.

With all these new designer crosses (puggles etc) they are not, IME, being bred by experienced breeders who have worked with a particular breed for years and know the lineage of each dog. they are being bred by people wanting to command huge amounts of money for a crossbred dog with a designer name. The reason pedigree dogs cost the money they do is because people argue that you know what you are getting, and certainly there is some truth in that. As I said, a good breeder can trace lineage and will avoid breeding a bitch or dog that has come from a line with previous history of problems etc etc. With these new breeds, you really have no idea what you are getting! It would be nice if you bred 2 dogs and got the best qualities of both, but the reality is that you are just as likely to get the worst of both! I don't believe these designer dogs, while cute, are a great bet health-wise, sorry.

hephaestus · 21/08/2011 16:13

What Jooly said. Generally I would advocate a 'good' pedigree dog - i.e one for which you have a record of good/outstanding health tests and working titles for the entire five-gen (or more) pedigree. However, at risk of being flamed, this is not something you are going to achieve with a pug - their very nature means that they are, well, 'deformed' and are always going to be at risk of health issues. A responsible breeder will be trying their best to eliminate health issues with careful selection of breeding stock but, let's face it, there's only so much you can do for a dog bred purely for its looks when that look includes extreme brachycephaly.

Again as Jooly has pointed out, a cross between two pedigree dogs doesn't eliminate health issues - the offspring may inherit the conditions of both parent breeds.

If you are wanting a dog with the least chance of health defects, choose a breed with no extremes of characteristics and choose a breeder based on their ability to provide you with EVIDENCE of health tests (will vary by breed but hip and elbow scores are almost always relevant, plus any known breed specific issues) plus, if relevant, proof of working ability.

Or, y'know, get a rescue. In fact, please do, don't give the backyard pugadoodle breeder a penny of your hard earned money.

Original poster
maypole1 · 21/08/2011 16:27

To be honest the pure breed coast as much as the cross breeds and I was not wanting to go to a breeder

Their is a lady I know who is heavily pregnant with what is now twins and already has a 3 year old and cannot mange a dog as well

I did read on line pugs to tend to have more Heath issues than other dogs

I DID NOT HOW EVER WANT THE PUG for its looks more for its size and temperament we are also happy to also look at shiz tu we have children and wanted a good natured small dog

All thats in the dogs homes are staffs and we don't want those

OP posts:
hephaestus · 21/08/2011 16:42

Staffs are, generally speaking, good natured small dogs, not a great deal of health issues, usually easy to train, great with kids. Just saying!

Joolyjoolyjoo · 21/08/2011 16:48

If I'm honest, I'd say SBT's are a far better breed with children than shih tzus!!!

Pugs are sweet wee guys, but be prepared to spend a lot of time and money in the vets. Ditto with a pug cross, as you can guarantee it will have many of the pug problems, plus those of whatever it is crossed with. What age/ type is the dog you are thinking of rehoming? have you met the dog? Bear in mind if you rehome privately, you will not be able to easily give the dog back if it isn't working out. A good rescue will support you while the dog is settling in, and will accept the dog back if it's not working out.

there are loads of small good-natured dogs in rescue Sad It's not just the poor staffs that get abandoned by twats. well worth looking in to, really. Most rescues will also have the dog vaccinated, chipped, wormed and neutered- an absolute bargain!

Original poster
maypole1 · 21/08/2011 16:50

Hi don't really want To get into the saffs are good dogs really debate

We just don't want a staff

OP posts:
Original poster
maypole1 · 21/08/2011 16:59

my sister went to dogs trust last week it was so sad they basically had saffs she was looking for a dog but came back with a cat just saffs and the odd jack Russell she said but can't harm going down their my self

We Are looking at and older dog really
Even on on the online sites its just saff,rotwiler ,staff,pug staff crossed with pit bull,staff

Their are just so many I really thing RSPCA and others would be demanding they be done before they will treat them
Looking at the pictures of the saffs copped up in what clearly from the pictures looks like a flat is such really very sad

OP posts:
kitsmummy · 22/08/2011 08:26

We have a pug x french bulldog. She really is the most beautiful natured little dog ever, we're all totally in love with her, and yesterday she won the Pretties Bitch class at the mid somerset dog show (although we suspect the judge probably had a good sense of humour).

So far we've had no vet trips, and in many senses she seems very tough, cast iron stomach etc etc. However, we bought a cross in the hope that we wouldn't have breathing problems, but stupid us bought a French Bulldog cross, and they also have the squashed up noses, doh. Didn't think it through too much really, and sometimes she does have times when you can tell that something is blocking her breathing or something similar. This lasts about 30 seconds and occurs every few days. It does worry me for the future...

If you are going for a cross, I would suggest a cross with something that doesn't have a squashed up nose, eg maybe a jack russell as someone above suggested. However, I'm not a vet or a breeder and I don't really know the ins and outs of it, it would just seem to make common sense to me? Happy to be corrected by someone who knows better though...

CalamityKate · 22/08/2011 10:05

I am all for hybrid vigour

A crossbreed isn't a hybrid though?

Personally I can't imagine why anyone would want a dog that is so deformed through breeding to look a certain way that it can hardly breathe. It baffles me. I'd feel sick and guilty every time I looked at it.

NevermindtheNargles · 22/08/2011 10:18

We re-homed a pug/boston terrier cross. It used to break my heart to hear him struggling to breathe as a pup and I can't understand why anyone would breed dogs that have these problems.

He is all grown up now and is actually very healthy. His snout seems to have protruded slightly as he's grown and he doesn't have anywhere near the problems he did to begin with.

Be aware though that (ime) pugs are very hard to train. This is not so much a problem when you have a little pug who just wants to sit on your lap and snort, but when you add other breeds into the mix they can be much more energetic and boisterous (ours is).

He's a delight though. A massive PITA, but a wonderfully good natured and loving dog, a real character and we love him dearly.

Scuttlebutter · 22/08/2011 10:22

OP, there are many, many healthy small dogs who would be ideal family pets for you who are in rescue. If you like, tell us what part of the UK you live in and we can recommend some rescues for you - Dogs Trust and the RSPCA are not the only ones. And there are many rescues who will rehome to families with young children.

Original poster
maypole1 · 22/08/2011 15:17

London

Tomorrow we are going to look at a 18 month
Shih tuzu bitch the lady in question is old has a 2 year old male and also 2 puppies, she say she cannot cope with all four dogs

What questions should I ask

What I have have already asked about the vets and will be getting the name and address of the vets when we go up their.

Anything else?

OP posts:
EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 22/08/2011 15:25

Why she eneded up with two puppies? If she's neutered the adults yet?

EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 22/08/2011 15:29

How about looking here. They have a lot of smaller dogs.

Original poster
maypole1 · 22/08/2011 16:33

To be honest the whole thing sounds dodgy I ask the lady fir the dogs vaccine card which she said she didn't have Hmm as she Said the dog was completely done before she got her then i said ok can I have the name of the vets you now take the dog to she said she had never taken to the vets so could not provide me with the information Hmm

Now even if your dog or cat is not sick you still would join them up to a vets I know i did with my cats

Tell me i am crazy or is this as dodgy as it sounds

I am am very sure in the first conversation this mooring she said the pups were from this bitch

OP posts:
EvenLessNarkyPuffin · 22/08/2011 16:59

Walk away.

bamboobutton · 22/08/2011 17:06

no way will i ever have a pedigree, especially a pug, due to the health problems.

my dsis has a pug and has spent thousends of pounds on her breathing troubles, none of which is covered by pet insurance so they have to pay up £££££s a time.
their pug has just become the first dog in the uk to have a body peircing flesh tunnel put in her throat to help her breathe!

bamboobutton · 22/08/2011 17:08

excuse typos, trying to stop ds slamming his hands on the keyboard.

hephaestus · 22/08/2011 22:53

Not all pedigree dogs are deformed and have health problems, bamboo. Mine are all purebred, 'pedigree' dogs (though unregistered, all rescues) but of a breed in which working ability and thus soundness/good health/athleticism is paramount. They have a very, very low incidence of inherited disease, HD/ED almost unheard of for instance.

It's when dogs are bred purely for their looks that you end up with the flat faced monstrosities that can't run or breathe.

Scuttlebutter · 22/08/2011 23:45

Heph, that's also true of greyhounds. Ours have pedigrees as long as your arm, but are strong, healthy dogs bred for ability and temperament not for looks. They just aren't registered with the KC. Grin

Similar issues apply to many working dogs e.g. foxhounds.

I understand completely where Bamboo is coming from, though. We were at a local event/fun dog show on Sunday afternoon in one of the city's parks. Lots of dogs having a great time, but it was heartbreaking to see and hear this little pug waddling along, snuffling and looking very uncomfortable in the heat. Nobody's dog should have to have corrective surgery to be able to do basic things like see and breathe - something very wrong there with the approach of breeders.

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