Does breed really matter with young children?

[LauLauLemon]

I've grown up around dogs my whole life and DD1 (3) is asking for a dog. Now we finally have a garden and a house large enough we said yes as we've always wanted a dog too but it was a case of waiting until we could give it enough time and exercise.

Now that I'm a SAHM to DD1 (3) and DD2 (8 months) we thought a puppy would be a lovely addition.

I'm meeting a lovely 8 week old pup who's a terrier cross breed. Jack Russell terrier crossed with a mixed terrier. I've been Googling for tips and a lot of people say that terriers are not good around children and no way would they ever have a terrier around them, even if raised with children from birth and brought up in a loving environment.

I've always been of the 'it's not the dog, it's the way it was raised' brigade but now I'm starting to wonder. Obviously the pup will be well trained but is it irresponsible of me to get a terrier cross breed or is the internet a big pile of stupid?

Yes - it is important to consider breed, in that you need to think what the dog was bred for. Small dogs bred to hunt aren't the same deal as small dogs bred as 'toys'.

The happiest bunch of JRT-type dogs I've come across lived on a farm (we were renting a holiday cottage) - they would play fetch for hours (DDs tennis ball was a limp rag by the end of the week) interspersed with jumping over walls and disappearing into the barn to terrorise rats.

Experience of JRTs - just like Grimma's!

Have you though of getting a Border Terrier? They're sometimes described as the 'good guys' of the terrier world (which is a bit unfair on e.g. JRTs who can't be blamed for the fact that they've been mistaken for toy dogs by so many people, but hey...)

The Border Terriers we know do seem to live up to their reputation, though: cheerful, intelligent - seemingly more easily and reliably adaptable to life as town-based family dogs than (some) JRTs, Irish Terriers, etc.

Just wanted to add that our JRT has at least 2 walks, of an hour each, off the lead in open countryside or on the beach, everyday.

I think JRT's need to sniff about, burrow in hedges, chase rabbits etc. Then they are happy to come home and flop. For us, this works well with 3 lively children, but they definitely aren't 'quick trot round the block and a game of ball in the park' dogs!

We have the 8 week old terrier cross. She's very high energy and affectionate and since she's 8 weeks old we've started to house train her right from the get-go.

She seems very playful yet docile ie. She'll cuddle with you, let you tickle her stomach, play fetch (although is not good with bringing it back yet haha) and sits very well. She's having her vaccinations next week and when those are done she will be walked twenty minutes either way to the park and let loose off the lead and we have a large garden so there'll be plenty of exercise for her.

Thank you all. Are there any tips on how to house train a JRT? I know the basics but any tricks that have worked for you?

Congratulations!!!

We didn't put paper down, just took him out at least hourly and went mad with the praise when he did something!

We ignored accidents, and kept an eye out for sniffing/ looking like he needed to go. If he crouched down to go in the house I would leap up, say 'no' and whisk him outside.

I am definitely not an expert, but it worked for us and he was house trained really quickly!

Oh dear, what happened to poor Rhanee? is she still homeless?

I've got new puppy pics of my JRT but I have no idea how to upload pics to a thread

Congratulations!
Sounds like you've got a nice pup and are starting off well.

One houstraining tip, when you've mopped up an accident, put the cloth outside and let her sniff it there - can help them get the idea wee goes outside.

had a quick read of this thread yesterday and hoped to come online this evening to hear you had thought better of buying a mongrel puppy.

hope it works out well for you. the things that rung alarm bells for me is that someone is breeding mongrels therefore not breeding to improve the line but breeding for profit and that you were buying a puppy without even seeing where pup lived

i hope you are the exception to the rule. there are thousands of terrier crosses in rescues around the uk, a lot of these will be from homes with young children

I'm not keen on strident threads, but I do find the development on here really sad - and even sadder that although a rescue dog looked likely to get a home and has been passed over for a purpose bred puppy only CCC has commented on this.

I have a dog who is absoloutely perfect for my family and he is one of those breeds that no one wants. He was a stray, found, rescued on his 7th day in the pound and rehomed in a placement that didn't work, because the resident dog turned on him and hurt him quite badly. Back in kennels for several months he was depressed. We saw him on the web site, cried buckets, went through tthe assessments and checks and ended up with a lovely older chap who is fully housetrained, kind, walks on the lead and is a load of fun when he is not quietly sitting in his bed, on the sofa having cuddles or asleep. Dogs like him are being killed everyday because stupid people breed mongrel puppies, hawk them round their friends and make £££
from selling them The chances are that those puppies will be unruly, possibly difficult to train, just too much for a family with other things to cope with. They often get handed into dog rescue too, making the problem worse.

I just wonder why the OP decided again Rhanee or another resucue dog, and chose to perpetuate this problem - and why people keep posting saying "good for you" , sometimes I'm just lost for words.

P.S The only reason I'm not off to get another is that my dogs experiences with the other dog ( he still has the scar) means he is very anxious around other dogs and would not share us.

I'm inclined to think most informal breeding is most ill advised and contrary to dog welfare as a whole. The breeder here has created a litter of mongrel puppies whichhas simply added to the number of dogs that need homes.

In my workplace a litter of puppies needing homes was brought in recently. The owner had let her bitch produce a litter of cross breeds because, she said, it would be a good experience for her children. She wanted £2-£300 each for them and has managed to find homes ( some, in my opinion, rather dubious placements that may not last) for them and she cannot agree to take them back if they become unwanted as she has a small house. This is just so totally irresponsible. A few of us here have rescue dogs and we just felt very upset about it, she was expecting everyone to go "ooh & Ah" over her puppies and frankly our heart wasn't in it.

"Well, I assume that the OP's puppy needed a home too. If it is a responsible breeder, then hopefully the puppy would have stayed with them until it did find a home, and if it wasn't a responsible breeder then I assume it would have ended up in a rescue place too at some point?"

sorry but i just dont get the logic behind that statement. giving the puppy - in this case actually paying the so called breeder for the puppy - a home will just encourage people to breed mongrel dogs. what is the point of breeding more mongrels when so many already exist? really, what is the point?

you say puppy farms are wrong. the OP didnt even visit to see where pup was living so there was no opportunity to check what conditions the pup came from. this pup could have come from a puppy farm but still people said comments like 'good for you'. it makes me sad that people who presumably like dogs dont think about the suffering that is likely to be involved in producing that cute looking pup.

reputable breeders are in the minority. fact. you couldnt ring up and the next day or two a reputable breeder would drop a puppy off for you as they would have waiting lists for homes before even breeding and then they would want to check you could give dog a suitable home. they would also expect you to sign a contract not to breed from that dog and would take the dog back at any time during its lifetime if you cannot look after it for any reason. buying a pup from this type of breeder is the only way to ensure that the breeding bitch is being looked after and not exploited. if you care about animals why would anyone not want to do this to ensure animal welfare is the priority and not money?

how can the breeder possibly be a responsible breeder as he had bred mongrels? the two arent compatible. his reason for breeding couldnt possibly have been to improve the line as these are mongrels.

btw i am not anti mongrels. i have two jrts and a collie x myself. there was no possible reason (other than to make a quick buck) to breed from mine so they are all neutered

Hope - I hope I can clarify a few points for you about rescue.

You seem to cheerfully assume that a rescue place will be found if the pups don't go to a home straight away. Yes, there are rescues that will take them. Each of those rescues is a charity which has to fundraise to support the endless stream of dogs. Alternatively the pup could end up in a Council pound, either now or when it's a bit older and the owner is fed up with dealing with a not so cute terrier teenager who's rampaging through the house with not enough to do. In most pounds, an abandoned dog has between a one in six and one in three chance of facing the needle.

Your taxes go to pay to effectively clean up the mess left by irresponsible breeders and owners. I'm currently doing the stats for all Welsh authorities and looking at what they spend on stray dog services - around £2 million a year because people are lazy, greedy and selfish. Just in South Wales, the independent charity sector spends around a further £0.75 million on stray dogs. Whichever way you look at it, that's an awful lot of money that could be diverted to other Council services (libraries, schools., social care, street cleaning) or other charities.

Rescues can only do so much. The cost, in financial terms, for the dogs who pay with their lives and the emotional cost to those who are involved in rescue is immense. What makes it even harder is that so much of it is avoidable.

I don't particularly want to have a go at the OP but in microcosm, buying a pup from a backyard breeder helps carry on the whole sorry tale, in which dogs are treated as disposable commodities, many pay with their lives and the whole of society picks up a pretty big bill to deal with the mess.

If she didn't buy the puppy, maybe someone else would have and the puppy would still have another home and the breeder would still think breeding was worth it. Maybe not, maybe the puppy would not have been sold. The best for the puppy in this situation would be that the breeder take it to rescue. Unfortunately that doesn't always happen. Sometimes they are dumped, sometimes they are drowned. Sometimes they are dropped off at the pound. But it would more than likely be the last litter the breeder bred and one more irresponsible breeder who decides it's not worth it anymore. That's a lot less potential puppies each year ending up in the wrong homes or with serious life long illnesses due to bad breeding or ending up facing an uncertain future because they cannot be sold for the right price.

This last year I have seen first hand what happens when the demand dries up. A Whippet puppy drowned in a bucket. A kitten dumped in the park and left to freeze, barely old enough to be away from it's mother. 4 Lurcher puppies dumped on the beach, left to fend for themselves. Another Whippet sold to an unsuitable home and locked in a cage for 18+ hours a day. A staffy in the pound, who contracts Parvo and dies at less than 2 years of age.

All of the above happens because people still think it is okay to go and buy puppies or kittens from anyone who is selling them cheap enough. BYBs still think it is worth doing because people keep buying. It's a sad and vicous circle. The only victim is the pets who contribute nothing to this awfull cycle. Were it not for BYBs and their customers, rescues around the country would not be overflowing with unwanted and abused pets. Thousands of dogs would not die unwanted and unloved each year in pounds.

The argument about what happens to puppies is dependent on whether you look at a specific puppy or pups in general. If that specific puppy isn't bought by the OP, several things could happen. The seller could put an advert on Gumtree, on the internet, give it to a friend, or worst case, dump it/shoot it/use it for bait in a dog fight. If it's a bitch, it could well end up in the hands of a puppy farmer, to continue the saga.

As with any market, the seller is responding to demand. If more people refused to buy from dodgy breeders, and went to reputable sensible breeders or to rescues, there would be fewer dogs in the system. Reputable breeders often do keep in touch with dogs they have bred, will take back the dog if there's a problem and will grill prospective owners very thoroughly indeed. Purchasers will often have to sign an agreement stating that they will not breed from the dog and commiting to return it in case of a problem. I haven't even touched on the issues around health testing - can't imagine many backyard breeders stretching to thorough and comprehensive pedigree examination, tests, record keeping etc.

By buying the puppy at the price demanded by the seller, the purchaser is sending a clear economic message - This works. The seller will, in economic terms, be perfectly sensible in then thinking - Right, I've just sold a load of cute pups at £400 a pop, thank you for that lovely tax free bonus. I'll do that again. It's interesting from an economic point of view because the externalities are not borne by the seller so they are effectively getting a free ride. In addition, many of these breeders are not declaring the income made so are making a very tidy tax free profit - I did some work on tracking one particular "hobby" breeder recently and they were making around £20,000 a year tax free income including sales of pups and stud fees. This makes me even angrier since undeclared income like this is money that is not going into the general economy to support things like hospitals and schools, but straight into the back pocket of a greedy, unscrupulous breeder.

I have no quarrel at all with reputable, responsible breeders (of whom there are several on MN) but too often people get involved in breeding for the wrong reasons, and make a mess we all have to pay for.

I am less familiar with the situation with cats - I imagine it is similar?

I'd like to know why the OP changed her mind - was it just easier for her to take the puppy? Did the adoption procedure seem too onerous? If we could understand more how one individual makes these choices it would be useful in helping the rescue dogs - and those that don't even get that far.

I find it it difficult to understand how someone who was shedding tears over Rhanee one day takes the puppy option the next.

I think it all happened a bit too quickly for Many Tears to have rejected (that is where my dog came from), maybe the dog was too far away or something like that. Sometimes rescues can be a bit off putting. I remember one home pleading a few years ago for homes for laboratory beagles and getting very short shrift from them when I phoned to offer to help - it almost put me off trying again ( and we had quite a lot of hound experience, including a rescue dog ) If that happens a puppy might seem an easier option to pursue - though MT are very friendly and helpful.

I agree that some of the rescues can seem a bit off-putting. Some of the websites make you feel like potential dog-molestors with all the provisos and precautions they insist on - it feels as if they look on all potential owners as the enemy. It should be about matching dogs to owners - for the benefit of both. It can feel like visiting a parallel universe where human are the inferior species! But when we visited the one we finally did, I found that staff were are very friendly and welcoming although understandably anxious to check us out thoroughly.

I do wish some of the websites explained things a bit more thoroughly - why they insist on the check-ups - but did it in a way that makes you feel they are sympathetic to the potential owners as well as to the dogs.

My gran had 2 jack russells (not at the same time)

The first one, a dog, jack, was adorable, he was really good with us (as small children) he didn't like the GSD up the road. But in whole a lovely playful dog.

The second one, a bitch, also called jack, she was very yappy, and territorial. I was more wary of her.

Like previous posters have said, it is the individual dog, not the breed. And also down to the amount of time you have to spend with them, and train them.

I'd like to know why the OP changed her mind

She didn't - she was looking at the terrier cross from the outset, and was at least willing to consider the rescue. If you're on track to get one particular pup, it would be quite hard to put the brakes on that to start from scratch with the rescue which might or might not work out anyway, and the first pup would still need a home ... Given which, surely its better to be supportive of questions pertaining to the situation as it is (housetraining or whatever) than to put her off by criticisms of her choice after the event.

GTN - the OP originaly posted having made arrangements to "meet" the terrier pup but wondering whether the breed was right or a relevant consideration. When the question of rescue was raised she said she had read about Rhanee, cried a lot and made an application, but the dog was a long way away and there were transport issues. There is no update on this, just the news that she had bought the puppy. I wouldn't criticise the OP ( though my feelings about the idiot who bred the mongrel litter are fairly strong) but I would like to know how the decision came about, so that those of us who are passionate about doing something to save the thousands of lovely dogs who are killed every year through no fault of their own could perhaps support action to make rehoming a rescue ( to the right people) easier.

One factor here might be the age of the OPs children, which would rule her out with some rescues. I'd just like to know how this decision came about. I felt very sad that no one else asked about what had happened to Rhanee who is a really nice dog who has waited for a home for ages, but were all posting cooing comments about the puppy.

I'm sure the op will get lots of support on here with puppy issues, but if the breeder is a responsible person they should be the one providing it.