I'm leaving the site

[emptyshell]

I'm not welcome here anymore - am asking around about how I get my account deleted but didn't want to vanish here without letting the one decent corner of this cesspool of oestrogen know where I'd gone.

Love, hugs and sloppy wet noses to you all.

ET, I'm so sorry... totally boggled by 'women without children shouldn't be teachers'. Whoever wrote that is clearly out of touch with any sort of reality.

It used to be that teaching was about the only occupation open to women but you got chucked out on marriage and certainly on motherhood. Mothers being teachers is quite a new phenomenon.

And - reducing the argument to the complete absurdity it is - no newly qualified teacher can take up a post till they've bred? ... that is completely and utterly bonkers.

don't know you, but don't go. ignore whoever it was.

i hold good teachers in awe, i am a patient woman, but could not do your job.
takes some soul giving. x

Maybe just hide Aibu and stick to topics you like? I've been thinking doing that because all the misanthropic tedium gets me down as well.

The most fantastic teacher I had as a child did not have any children of her own at that point.

'women without children shouldn't be teachers'

How purile.

Please do not take it to heart.

You sound like a very caring teacher and that is so important.

I hope things get better for you. I know it can be a torment to be with other people's children and not to have one of your own. There are not so many good teachers out there, but if you are one of the good ones you will be making a big impact on the children that you teach. It is a small consolation I know, but it is an important one.

i do have to say, I dont think anyone was saying that women without children shouldnt be teachers. but that they shouldnt give parenting advice.

emptyshell lovey, I sat reading your post with tears in my eyes. It's not my place to say "don't go", it's not that easy is it, but please, do what is right for you but don't leave us altogether, keep in touch.

You "know" me well under my alter-ego and have been kind enough to speak out for me when certain types have got whipped into a frenzy on here. I've been avoiding the Doghouse for a while - unlike you, when people are deliberately offensive or cruel I might call them a cunt rather than get upset. Not a word I use often but for some, deserved. There have been a few too many of them recently so I thought discretion might be the better part of valour and just avoided the Doghouse instead of letting rip at certain folk.

I'm damned if I'm reading this post without speaking out though! I don't know what made me look here for the first time in a while but I'm glad I did. The person on that childless teachers thread (which I have yet to read but will find and destroy the bitch in a minute) is just the sort of cunt I'm talking about.

Can't be a teacher unless you have children? Bullshit! Tell that to 75% of my teachers, old-school spinster schoolmistresses each and every one. Mine was rated one of the best schools in the country. Tell that to my lovely childless, successful teacher 27 year old cousin - go on, I dare them!

Good god, my own DD needed a teacher like you, to protect her from an out of control bully. She wouldn't have broken down and be unable to attend school as she did had she found one. It's teachers like you who make the difference between a child surviving school or not - and for some children the difference between living and suicide.

Being a parent doesn't make you more capable at anything. For some it just shows up their flaws (I know it does for me, I'm an inpatient, intolerant cow!). Whoever said that the childless shouldn't be teachers/can't teach adequately has shown up her flaws big time and I really do pity her children for being brought up with such ignorant views.

The fault is with that other poster, not with you emptyshell, and don't you forget it!

I don't know you either emptyshell, but I hope you won't leave - please, please give MN another chance. It is all wrong that someone like you should be driven away by a few random clueless idiots.

Even if you take a break for a while, please remember that you are welcome here.

I posted on your other thread Emptyshell, but I agree with DogsBestFriend, if you leave please feel you can keep in touch. You are much welcome on this site than a tosser like on the other thread, children or no children.

My friend started her teaching job before she had children. She is now teaching teenagers when she has never owned a teenager. I must be sure to tell her how wrong she is and how useless she must be at her job. I'm not sure her bosses agree as she has been promoted to head of her subject, which given that she is only 29 I think is great.

Other poster is a numpty. You are not a numpty. Simples.

I'm so sorry you feel you have to go, I've been following all the stuff you've been through and have a lot of admiration for you.

Also, my best teacher was and still is childless. In fact she was so awful at her job that on any internet forums where people from my old school get chatting she is always mentioned as the favourite teacher and the one who made the most difference to people's lives. I'm sure you'll leave a legacy like that behind

As a society we put in place barriers to who can be a teacher because we all want the best for kids. You passed those tests and rightly take pride in your role.

No test of caring or intelligence to be parent. Just sad that some choose to make that obvious on a public, supposedly supportive, forum.

Go snuggle the dogs.

Empty, not stalking you - promise! However I posted on your other thread about an hour ago and have been thinking about you since. I cannot claim to be totally in your situation but know some of the pain, and I'm sorry. But, you must not take to heart the ridiculous words of some anonymous nasty poster, who clearly has no idea of what crap they are sprouting. Some people just type the most horrible things for effect or to be argumentative, actually they come across as fools.

But since you have posted to say you want to leave and how upset this poster made you loads of other posters have come out to support you, take heart from that. Look, it sounds as though you need some support at the moment and there are plenty of us here ready to be here, listen, chat and cry with you.

Don't let one idiot spoil that for you x

emptyshell - i hope you come back to read these messages of support. i'll tell you a bit about my ds and some of his inspiring teachers. son's statement of sen says he has complex needs to give you an idea of how difficult it must be to teach him. he has been at the same school for the last 6yrs. he has had 3 amazing teachers who i have the greatest admiration for. all 3 have helped him achieve academically and emotionally. all 3 teachers - two female, one male - are probably in their 50s. i know they all have dogs but i have no idea if they have children. i dont need to know that and it has never come up in conversation. why would it?? i know they care about my son and i know they are committed to academic achievement, that is all i need to know

years ago i worked as a drug & alcohol councillor and had people telling me that i needed to be a recovering addict to do my job. er no, i just needed to be good and my job. it hurts so much more for you because it is so personal. i was having an off day a few weeks ago and on an aibu thread a poster started joking about my dogs killing my chickens. two other posters joined in and it was horrible. it did upset me, because i was feeling poorly in rl that day, but it shows them to be like playground bitches bullies who get their kicks out of joking about people's pets dying

there are lots of great posters on MN. i think its just when you feel down in rl words on a screen matter more than they would otherwise. i can understand if you want a break but hope you do stay in the doghouse

emptyshell there are a lot of stupid, cruel people in this world, some of them appear to have computer access. I tend to avoid the threads that I know would upset me, but that's easier to do, when you don't have to deal with horrible day to day realities, that are emotionally draining and make you feel very vulnerable.

Don't leave Mumsnet, just take a short break if you need to. There are loads of lovely posters on here and you'd miss it really!

And just for the record, when I worked in education, I actually think I was better and more dedicated in my job, before I had children. After I was more harassed, stressed and certainly bought less resources for my classroom.

Emptyshell dont go.
We dont meet often but I do know you and some of your story.

You have a right to be here and a right to respect.

We all do.

I agree with the other MrsD above. Take a break if you need to but dont leave if there are aspects of MN you find helpful.

You shouldnt be a teacher if you dont have children? WTF?

So sorry emptyshell.

I read the thread in question and was deeply shocked.

Could you not just give it a rest for a while.

emptyshell, you don't 'know' me but I just wanted to say that you do have children, many many children who you have helped, inspired and reached out to and those children will always carry a part of you within them.

Emptyshell

First, what Flanker said - my children are also their wonderful teachers' children: it takes a village to raise 'em, as someone wise once said. In my case, its easy for me to remember that (my dds don't have my genes) but in all cases, its true.

I remember a post you posted here about your experiences, and it both touched me and also reminded me of my own struggles with infertility. I'm totally shocked at what sounds like some mad posting on another thread, and so sorry that you are leaving as a result.

tbh, I avoid huge sections of MN and only look at/post on 3 or 4 topics that are either helpful to me, or on which I can sometimes help....it all gets too much otherwise, especially if I'm feeling vulnerable or exhausted. Could you maybe do that too? Or just have a break? You'll be missed here....

Empty,

So sorry to read this, and hope you will reconsider. I don't have children. We struggled with infertility and then I had cancer, which finally put an end to our hopes in that direction. Yes, of course, the parent-centric nutters are a pain in the backside, and yes, I still find it quite painful at times when people come out with gems like "You only grow up when you have kids" or "Only parents care about the environment" or other ludicrous statements. But they are SO ridicolous that I'm happy to argue the toss, and also to think that while I'll never be a parent, I'll also never be that stupid, narrowminded or bigoted. I also think that just because I'm not a parent, I'm still someone who's a dog lover, still someone who cooks, cleans, watches TV, quilts, sews, campaigns, works, and does myriad other things that entitle me to post on a whole range of subjects. You won't find me on S & B because as a dog owner I like fleece, and apparently that's a style crime.

I also think it's sometimes important for parents to hear the views of non parents on stuff. I remember a thread around Christmas where some entitled bint thought that parents should have first pick of all the Christmas holidays and that us non childed folk obviously had no families, lives or indeed any right to do anything but to sit back and cover the office while bowing before the mighty breeder... that NEEDED an input from a voice of sanity.

Most of the dog hating threads are so bonkers I don't even post much any more. "I was in a park, and a dog LOOKED at my child. This shouldn't be allowed. " and so on. How can anyone counter that with logic or proportionality?

So take a break if you want, but I for one will miss your contribution particularly the exploding poo bag, and the Braveheart dog. And I was really looking forward to hearing about your new greyhound.

emptyshell,

Don't leave because of a bunch of idiots.

Me xx

I'm on restricted MNing at the moment because Bastard Telecom has my Internet down. Perhaps that is a good thing once in a while.

Please don't get upset by insensitive posters. As a parent, I only have in depth experience of my children. An experienced teacher knows much more about children of all kinds because they will have known perhaps hundreds of them over the years. I always enjoy the input that teachers here have.

I'm so sorry to hear about your miscarriages. Infertility is such a difficult condition because it hits at random and is just not fair.

OK Empty shell.
This is the first time I have been to these pages because they aren't normally relevant to me. However your thread was one that was on the active list.
I have to say the OP on that thread as I commented very early on was out for a bargy.

I read your posts and I agree with everything you have posted.
The thing about the internet is, as we all know, is that anyone can write any load of shit down and get a reaction.

THe comments were nasty and definatly out to cause a sensation.

Hurtful, yes for sure but personal? Hell no. They know jack shit about you and were just wanted reactions.

You going to give a troll or muppet that satisfaction?

I hope not.

Oh love :(

I don't have a dog and I don't understand how you must be feeling, but I do know that you need to know how well-liked you are around here. Please don't question yourself any more. Take a break from MN and gather your strength. I hope to see you on here again soon.

Don't let them get you down. Take care xxx

oh dear, I have posted intermittently over the years on mumsnet but have always had sympathetic and good advice. Have things got that bad then>? I've just started on the doghouse, but relish your posts. Please don't go - I for one really appreciate your down to earth experience and honesty.

My dcs have had fantastic teachers who do not have children. Ds1's current teacher is amazing. No kids. Dd's current teacher does have kids. He's good too.

Most of the time I wouldn't even know though - it's not like teachers at our school talk about their personal lives - just occasionally they come to school events with family and then you realise.

I bet you're a fantastic teacher and I don't for a moment buy into the crap that in order to be a midwife/health visitor/teacher you have to have kids any more than I'd buy into the idea that in order to be an ophthalmologist you have to wear glasses or to be a gynaecologist you have to be a woman.