New puppy thread, where new puppy owners can come for help and advice and hopefully clever people like minimu, midori et al will check regularly (please) to help us...

[Happymm]

Exactly what it says on the tin really. Kings idea, that we have a thread where we can all come and ask for help, advice, support or just to vent and that the much more experienced people will come and help us out :)

Thanks for the lead tips - good to know others were/are in same boat.

I didn't take pup out on lead today as DH had taken her out for a fairly long walk this morning and as vet appointment was at 10.15 it would have been too much of a rush. So she went in car instead - that's an area we need to work on and I have a crate in boot now whereas before she was just tied up - it seems to have helped so I'm hoping it will continue.

My MIL has an old BOrder collie and we are going to start meeting and going on walks together so the pup can get used to other dogs a bit more/get used to car and hopefully be able to stay there sometimes too. This weekend shes going to a home border for one night. It's the gun dog trainer so I'm hoping for an obedient dog when o get her back

I've just had a read through the thread and am a bit nervous about adding to it, but it does sound as though there is a lot of over exercising of puppies going on. Your pups are all such babies do still need quite a lot of managing in terms of exercise v rest.

The 5 minute thing is certainly not a rule - but it is a very valuable guide to not over doing things with puppies.

Puppies are babies and need to be taken care of because they can't make good decisions for themselves. Like little children, they run on adrenaline, especially in an exciting situation, eg on a walk or when playing with other dogs. They don't know when to stop and need you to make that decision for them. A puppy will ignore his exhaustion point and carry on looking like he's full of beans. He needs you to manage it for him.

I expect you'll all think I am quite mad/irritating/infuriating, and that your puppies need a good long walk to tire them out. I think that teaching your puppy to settle down and accept the 'right' amount of exercise is absolutely invaluable. Especially as the more exercise they get, the more they need - and imagine what that could be at 18/24 months old. It also creates a restless older dog who won't settle down well and is always pacing looking for the next whopping outing to belt about on.

The surplus energy can be used productively with a bit of training every day; or bonding games, like hiding things in the garden and teaching your puppy to hunt about and find them, a little game of tug of war with sometimes you winning and sometimes the puppy; more solitary entertainment like a Kong or a buster cube stuffed with kibble or something.

Using brain power is a billion times more exhausting than going on a walk.

Once you've done the interaction bit - teach your puppies to self settle in their crates/beds with a settle down command and a biscuit or a carrot. Let them work out how to calm down by themselves while you get on with something else for a while and ignore them.

Learning to wind down by themselves is a really, really important lesson/life skill for the rest of your dog's lives - and the bonus is that it makes a very calm, chilled out puppy.

I hope I haven't irritated. I've recently collected our newest working lab puppy (11 weeks and gorgeous) to take us back up to a fleet of 4 - it's hard learned knowledge gleaned from numerous puppy rearing mistakes along the years.

You certainly haven't irritated! That's what this thread is for, so we can learn from those much much much more knowledgable than ourselves :)

Thanks Daisy! As Happy says - you def haven't irritated at all! But I don't know how else to tire puppy out... He is a cockapoo and the spaniel energy definitely at the forefront! I do training with him 2/3 times a day but it doesn't take long to run through his repertoire and whatever new thing I am teaching him. Also don't want to keep having to treat him! (although I do use kibble mainly). We live in sw London so only have a patio - nor much scope for hiding stuff for him to find... A puppy kong lasts about 5
Mins max with him, slightly longer with a frozen top!
I also do some retrieving. But I certainly don't try and entertain him all the time - he chews everything and of course, despite a myriad of toys, prefers my daughter's so is in his play pen (crate also in it - is length of room with access to outside) a fair bit. He had a 45 minute run around in park this morning and then was crated and left for 2 hours. Then he mostly slept and chewed next to me whilst my daughter napped. I am just not sure what else to entertain him with?

He doesn't seem more chilled with less exercise and is actually better ad he crashes out. Have just got one of those wooden game exercising games so will see how he gets on with that!

Any more tips gratefully received daisy!

Daisy not irritated me at all in fact you told me this weeks ago and I took your advice seriously and bought my pups activity level down we were doing way too much! Our pup is so calm and chilled, occasionally a bit naughty with grabbing a shoe and legging it but other than that she sleeps or eats or has cuddles all day plus 2 lots of energy burning or if we do a slightly longer walk or play date I leave it at just one thing this seems to suit her and I can't thank you enough for playing a part in my gorgeous calm little pup!

Just thought I'd give a bit of an update on me and my new puppy.

He seems totally bomb-proof so far. Great with the cats, although will bark at them but makes no move to follow or chase them, great with other dogs, everything. Today he came to school with me and laid as good as gold in the hood of the pushchair, much to everyone's amusement.

He had his injection today at the vet, and the vet seems to think the puppy isn't 10 weeks old at all (11 weeks tomorrow according to the breeder). A few things had made us suspect this. He made no fuss when his collar and lead were first put on, he walked perfectly on the lead from day 1, he shows no signs of being scared/bewildered/upset/excited by anything at all, he doesn't nip.

My husband rang the breeder this afternoon and she is adamant that her bitch just throws out very large puppies, and ours in fact wasn't even the largest in the litter (he is 3.95kg and a shih tzu). She seems very genuine, assured us that he was born April 27th and that if we were at all unhappy then we could return him for a refund.

Our concern was that he had been returned to the breeder because of a problem and she was passing him off as younger to sell him for the most money.

Anyway, we are inclined to believe her as she always seemed so upfront and wasn't at all defensive when we questioned her, but whatever the truth, the long and the short of it is we have a wonderful puppy.

He is a picture of him www.twinsjoeandharry.blogspot.com

Opps try again www.twinsjoeandharry.blogspot.com

Thanks daisydotandgertie, it's great to have the benefit of your experience!

Aw geepers, your pup (and children!) are so cute. Can't offer any advice regarding the size/age issue but am jealous of your well trained pooch!

Spam! I'm so thrilled your gorgeous puppy is thriving and giving such joy to you all. Puppies are such bloody hard work, but (and I know I'm asking for trouble) there's nothing like a puppy which fits in beautifully with your life.

Kings - I don't think puppies need tiring out. They need to learn to manage their own day to play by themselves and snooze by themselves with a lot of nudging from you. So, yes he needs a walk (15 - 20 mins or so, I'd guess - I think he's about 4 months old) but also he needs to wear his brain out a bit - maybe a 5 minute training session followed by a hide and seek game.

The one on one time spent with him training and playing will build a really strong bond too

Spans are very busy, happy little things (is he show or working cocker?) - and a cockapoo is going to be very bright, and very busy. You could hide things around the house if the garden isn't any good; under cushions, under his bed - anywhere really - and teach him to bring them back to you. Use his natural instincts which are retrieving, foraging and following scent. Once he's got the hang of that, you can teach him to find things by name - so find your ball; find your kong - whatever you have.

I assume he gets his own toys and plays with whatever he fancies too? It's definitely not about entertaining him all the time (and I can see you're not), but about making sure you use some of his energy in a training/brain achy way in addition to a walk. A 20 max minute walk has to be more than enough physical exercise for him and you could mix this shorter walk with a game or a challenging toy.

this thing is brilliant for my girls. It takes them ages to get the food out and I've even cut off some of the little fingery bits inside it. They chase it around the house and fling it about.

this thing is good too - it's still alive and interesting 3 years after I bought it.

and this is next on my list.

Also buster cubes are quite good - it's the same principle of food inside a thing which has a small hole to get it back out of. Or even an old milk carton with kibble inside.

Kong's don't last long with mine either - frozen or otherwise. Maybe 5 minutes if I'm lucky. The only thing that takes them ages is if I ram (really, really hard) a big carrot into them so they have to chew like mad to free a little bit at a time - but that's no good for a puppy. Pups don't have enough jaw strength to do it.

Whoops. An essay. Again.

Thanks a lot daisy. I have just ordered a couple of new toys and will probably order some of the ones you have suggested! The brain trainer thing has kept him occupied / tired him out a bit this afternoon. 4 boxes with a flap coverig them and you put a treat in each. And a sliding one in the middle. Seems to keep him busy for a little while!

So how do you teach them to find things? I mean obv he is a spaniel and has a good nose etc but how will he know? I assume you hide them in front of him first? Also the only problem I forsee with that is his propensity to chew. A lot. So if I hide under a cushion he will sod the toy and eat the cushion, or the book or the desk etc.

Yes he has loads of toys and they get rotated to keep him interested . But there is always a good variety! He adores bones. Will keep him busy for ages but also make his poo a bit squidgy so don't really want to do that every day!

Wow I should really cut back on his walk - is that for the joints' sake? (also for some reason I thought it was the number of months x5 doubled per day!) anyway am now doing one walk a day and varying between morning and afternoon so he doesn't start pacing when he doesn't get a walk at the same time daily!

Have been examining my conscience re: length of walks and I think we're ok. The "nearly an hour" I mentioned on Sunday was, on thinking about it, the length of time we were out of the house, therefore including the return trip in the car, plus various stops to chat to other dog owners.
Rest have been 30 mins max, if that, although do you count the bounding around like a mad thing in the park on top of that?

Daisy, help. I have a devil pup. My question would be how on earth do you get them to calm down? My wee girlie, now 14wks red fox lab, (Ginger) just won't calm down. If she's in the garden, she won't sit down and rest, she constantly mooches, digs , and bites stuff. When in the house, she will continually mooch, trying to pick up stuff to chew (even if given her own toys-she prefers theirs to hers)
At night she's a pain in the neck, constantly mooching and trying to jump up, insisting on attention, or biting.
she has quite a lot of downtime in the day. Today we've done some training but that's about it, as had swimming, hospital appointments etc so should be calm, but no...
The only way I can make her rest is by crating her, or by tethering her with her lead wrapped around the sofa leg, and giving her a hide chew to chew on. I can't be constantly stroking her all night, and to be fair, if I do give her a cuddle, it's only a matter of minutes before she starts trying to bite me, which is defeating the object. She just doesn't get it that cuddles will stop if she bites...surprising as she's very clever-she actively tries to do the opposite of what is wanted during training! Gets over excited with treats so jumps up when I say down...
Help!

Mine is fairly similar to that too. Running around after my daughter's toys and to get him to sleep unless after a walk I usually have to crate him. Likewise if on lead in park at cafe he digs and digs and eats everythings
and v rarely settles down. He is still nipping sometimes although it has for a lot better (shows how bad it was!) and is usually calmish in evenings on sofa with me although still has his moments....what's ironic is that he was the calmest is the litter (not much between them but still!)

Well, here's a case of "the grass is greener," because I'm reading this wondering if there's something wrong with mine because he doesn't do any of this! He's a bit too mature! If you throw a ball or get out a tug-toy for him, he'll give you an old-fashioned look and may go after it, if he feels like it. Or he'll just sit there and ignore it.
He has his mad moments, but they're few and far between. Unless they involve a hose.

Clam I cannot actually believe you just said that! . I bet you anything happy and I would give anything to be in your shoes lamenting the lack of nipping, jumping and general havoc-causing behaviour in our puppies. Swap?

Happy - it sounds as though you have a clone of my no 3 dog .

I've assumed that because of her colour she's come from working stock? Have you a pedigree for her - and if you have who are her parents and grandparents? What sort of environment was she in before you got her?

It's been hard work with my no 3 dog - and only hard work and boring, boring routine helped her. She also didn't have the best start from her breeder either tbh which has, in hindsight, massively contributed to her behaviour.

She does sound over stimulated and unable to cope with the adrenaline she has. Really, really she needs no more than 20/25 mins walking and then home for no attention at all. Literally pop her into her crate/pen with a carrot or something and toys and get on with something else. Ignore wailing and gnashing - she has to learn to settle herself down.

Leave her for an hour or so and then out for a pee/poo and let her mooch about - it's what puppies do. She will get herself into trouble and eat the wrong thing/chew the wrong toy but she is learning through play - and how you react will set her up for the next round.

She'll nick stuff and run off with it (teach her to bring it back, praise like mad and then teach the 'give' command), dig holes in your garden and cause chaos. TBH, that sort of thing is just being a puppy and they grow out of it. The troublesome behaviour - nipping and being an attention seeking pain in the parts are the things I'd concentrate on.

All the advice I can give is based on no 3 dog. Our wild child. I can see the breeding in her parents so clearly in her - she is hard to train because she's so bloody clever. We stopped treat based training because she couldn't and still can't control herself well enough - she's the sort of dog who'd divide a wee into 30 tiny tiddles just because she got a treat for each one. And I felt it made her too keen to snap for something around fingers. She works for praise and attention instead which has kept her calmer. We stopped trying to stroke her while she was quiet - and now at a year, she has become a very affectionate, calm, non biting dog.

I have also done masses of work on steadiness for her; starting with learning to sit - then to sit and wait while I saunter off and fanny about - then to sit and wait while I throw a few things around her and then go and pick them up myself (it's the concentrating and self control which helps her) and then do the sit, wait, throw thing and allow her to retrieve one or two of the thrown things while I collect the rest.

She has also done really, really well with whistle training. One peep for sit and three short peeps for come back to me. It has used her brain a bit.

We did fall into the trap of negative attention being as good for her as any attention - she was such hard work. She was the first lab I've had like it and it took me a while to work out what pushed her buttons; calm, gentle praise - no shouting at her, really positive training methods. Telling her off just made it worse. I can't treat her like the others, she is just too hyper. A gentle tickle on the chest and a quiet 'good girl' gets much better results than treats.

PM me her parents and gparents if you like and I'll see if it throws any light on her behaviour.

Daisy you realise that now that we have you here we're never going to let you go don't you?

Forgot to say - my puppy's mother is a working line cocker - couldn't have guessed that could you?! Ha.

I am doing lots of work in park with him off lead and stopping him running off after people/dogs. Today in 45 minutes I don't think he approached anyone which I was v pleased about considering he use to run off after every ing 2 weeks ago. He is also 14 weeks.

So daisy, why do they bite? He was chasing me this morning in park and nipping my legs which he doesn't do at home! Is it playing/trying to get you to play? On the sofa in the evenings he will usually try and nip at some point (despite me having 3 toys up there for him). Of course I just yelp and ignore and replace hand with toy). He has got better but I suppose just more of the same to eliminate it?

So weird as I know how much he has improved but compared to some of the pups on here he is still mad! Is that the spaniel of just my crazy puppy? His mother was v calm!

Btw thanks so much daisy...

Oh my goodness daisy you are a god send!!!!

I have a bunch of questions and will definitely look through the toy link you sent through.

I have felt bad if I have left our pup (a working line springer) in her 'bedroom'(utility room with stair gate on) for any period of time as I felt she needs to learn how to mix with family life but I guess she will do that from behind the bars.

We have been keeping walks short and other play has been in the garden which we are lucky is fairly large.

A guide of how to play hide and seek would be good as well as other good games for a working spaniel.

One tip our trainer told us was don't let your pup het anything for free!

I tried to run through the homework training set by puppy class at meal times but she is so set on her food she won't budge from a sit, eyes fixed on the bowl so I think I might continue the sit and wait training there

I haven't even got my puppy home and this thread is proving invaluable!
Daisy you are amazing, I wish you lived near me. I might need you to be my puppy whisperer!!

Its very interesting about over exercise, thanks for coming on and talking about it, Daisy. Everything you say makes perfect sense. Please don't leave this thread! Ever.

Ha! Kings. I nearly said 'is there working cocker in there?' further up thread! She so sounded like there is a dollop of worker in there. Do you know if she's working bred or trial bred? There'll be quite some difference between the two .....

Working cockers are fabulous - active and intelligent - very sensitive and keen to please. IME they have to learn to trust you and once that's sorted will do anything you please whenever you ask. She'll need you to be firm but gentle. They are too sensitive for rough/shouty training.

The most important thing you'll ever do with your dog is get an absolutely rock solid, perfect recall - preferably to a whistle. Her instincts will encourage her to follow scents, rooting through cover and she'll cover distance very fast. Obviously, you have to be able to get her back to you - no matter what - so I would invest in a whistle (voices, for some reason, give up when you most need them) and teach her to come back to you with it. And work really, really hard at it. It'll increase the bond you have with her too.

But - your original question about biting. Have you ever watched puppies and dogs playing together? Biting is a large part of their communication. They hang off each others ears and lips and nip for attention. They also do the play bowing thing to show they're up for a game.

I've learned a lot from the way my girls interact. The adult dogs give the puppies a lot of leeway but will only play with them when they want to - it has to be on the adult dog's terms. Pup can just about dance on it's nose but it still won't get any attention if the adult isn't in the mood. I've even seen puppies launch themselves at an adult dog to try and start a game, but the adult just gets up and walks off leaving the pup behind. The puppy very quickly gets the message.

Puppy play though is different again. Put a pile of puppies together and they just have biting, chasing, play bowing, physical bundle. They don't have the ignoring thing going on but squeal loudly if someone hurts them. The routine seems to go play, nip, squeal, sit on bottom, start again. In this instance it's puppies learning about teeth, jaw strength and what's acceptable.

Puppies also are very keen to get to lick/nip faces and mouths when they're hungry - it's a baby thing.

Also - google bite inhibition by Ian Dunbar - it quite clearly explains why they do it.

However - it's not acceptable in our world. At all. So I don't tollerate any biting at all. Any hint of teeth is met with a firm no and I walk off or put the puppy down on their own somewhere. TBH, no is usually enough. I behave the same was as the adult dogs because I don't want to be treated like another puppy.

Alp- don't feel bad about teaching her about her bedroom. Keep in mind that adult dog you hope to end up with. In time, you won't have to have the gate there and she'll settle down in a variety of places without causing trouble but at the moment, she has a lot to learn.

To teach hide and seek, start with a favorite toy or small treat and let them see where you've put it. Keep it quite close to hand though. Pick a word for finding it and say that in a really happy, sing-songy voice while you lead your puppy to where you put the treat. Praise like a loon. Repeat. After a few goes, your pup won't need you to lead it to the treat. Then slightly increase the distance, vary the place and so on. Each time you change the game you might need to lead the puppy to the new element, but they'll catch on very, very quickly.

Eventually, you can be hiding many, many items and sending your dog out to find them - by name too if you like. It uses their brains and increases the level of trust they have in you which is no bad thing!

I've ordered the toys you linked to daisy, and am about to attempt 'hide and seek'...thank you!

Daisy - i don't know what stock his mother is descended from but will see if I can find out.

Yes he is very sharp and already knows sit, down, stand, paw, stay, off (leaving treat in front of him and saying off - he can have it once I give cue). He stays until I let him eat. He is learinng (can do) roll over am just trying to get it on cue like the rest. He retrieves puppy dummies already - we hope to take him shooting with us. He has improved a lot on lead and his recall us very good now. I use a clicker and already use a whistle for recall. And we have done lots of Work on "look at me" when out and he has picked it very quickly and now does not chase after people/dogs as he used to do all the time as I keep his attention with a treat/toy.

Yes have read Ian Dunbar many times ! (ha!) he is getting a lot better and when I yelp and ignore he usually sits and then down whilst looking expectantly at me... My husband says he clearly already adores me which is lovely and am sure he will be a fab dog when he calms down a tiny bit! It's when he gets excited (usually in park) that he forgets himself and jumps/nips. Hopefully that will come with time as long as I keep being consistent!

Thanks for all advice and hide and seek tips - I thought that was probably how it worked! Really appreciate it...

God posting from my iPhone is driving me mad (Internet has been down since sat !)

I have my first MN crush

Hide and seek sounds like a great game and will def try it out properly today! Had an attempt just know but DS kept trying to get treats/move treats/eat treats/not give treats so wasn't most successful although when DS was playing elsewhere it worked well

I hid treat round corner but then needed to guide pup back away by collar so she didn't get it straight away - I guess might work better with 2 people!

We are still getting biting and especially when she gets over excited. We say no and try to walk away but sometimes she leaps up again and again hanging on trousers etc. My MIL had her trousers bitten last night when she came to babysit

Don't say no to a puppy biting. Make a sharp high pitched ah! noise instead. (like a single version of what you might say to a child instead of no ah-ah!, only higher and sharper. Sorry, I'm not very good at writing sounds) That's mummy dog language for no. Your puppy will already know what it means because his mummy would have used it on him when he was annoying her.