New puppy thread, where new puppy owners can come for help and advice and hopefully clever people like minimu, midori et al will check regularly (please) to help us...

[Happymm]

Exactly what it says on the tin really. Kings idea, that we have a thread where we can all come and ask for help, advice, support or just to vent and that the much more experienced people will come and help us out :)

Don't be too despondent Happy ... You'll get there!

Ours has had a good day ... No accidents indoors thus far, has spent a lot of time out with our lab (great), nipped DCs (not so good) and we did some Sit training with the clicker and treats tonight for 10 mins which he was starting to get the hang of - but will no doubt forgetmby tomorrow

A mixed day here. We had some nice loose lead walking, and I taught her to hi-five BUT she woke up at 5am again and, even worse, bit a hole in a man's trousers when he came over to say hello. She was on the lead and sitting nicely one second, but then lunging madly the next and I wasn't quick enough to haul her back. I offered to pay to replace them of course but he wouldn't hear of it and was very nice...a lesson learnt though.

Happy - hope the crate thing works. Some puppies just can't control themselves when excited from walk (like mine!) - and don't know when to calm down with a sleep. I used to crate but actually sometimes now just put in playpen as he seems to have finally realised that he is tired after a walk and will go to sleep by himself. So you will also get there I think. And it gives you some peace as you know that they are tired and have been to the loo so you can just ignore them for a bit.

That's rubbish re the biting. Mine still does it sometimes - but it is a lot softer now having done a bit of work a la Ian Dunbar. But he does still and yesterday when out and lots of school children cam into the park and stopped to stroke him he went mad, jumping and nipping a bit too - I had him on a tight lead but thing is they give him attention and get very excited so he doesn't get the message not to jump etc. It's hard. He is I suppose, getting slightly better with people coming into the house but I do have to tell them to ignore him until he sits etc as he still jumps in excitement - apparently it's a submissive thing.

So sorry you aren't enjoying her at all. Not sure what to say other than that it will get better I think - you're doing all the right things and being very conscientious re training etc so it will pay off....

Glad everyone else is getting on well! Alp - good idea re gun dog specific trainer - ours is also working cocker lines (and obv both poodles and cockers are gun dogs) and we do want to gun dog train him so might look into that. Happy - you know you can send them off to gun dog boot camp for 6 weeks?

Boot camp sounds a great idea! I know it sounds bad, but am so looking forward to our holiday in 4wks, just so I can have 2wks without the puppy. She's going back to the breeders during our holidays. They do megatraining with their dog-maybe they can sort her out...:(

Just had something not very nice happen in the park! Puppy was off his lead and under the table at the outdoor cafe with another dog who he knows. Then a schnauzer came over and the puppy sniffed at him etc but wasn't jumping all over him. The owner came up and apologised and I thought "what's she apologising for?" and called her dog back - he ignored her quite a few times but came eventually. So my pup followed him and jumped up at him (wanting to play obv but I realise this isn't always okay) and the dog went MENTAL. Like really attacked the pup and pinned him down and was really trying to bite him. Puppy was screaming and owner just stood there calling her dog's name but not trying to grab his collar or anything. The puppy couldn't escape so I ran over and grabbed him away from the older dog. He was screaming and didn't stop for about 30 seconds afterwards. Now, I don't think it was my fault much - I know jumping up isn't ideal but am not sure how I am supposed to train my dog off lead in London otherwise - and this has never happened before - if he does go to another dog and jump up I will call him back and he usually comes. But in this instance I didn't have a chance to.

I would have thought that, given this dog is clearly puppy aggressive (maybe dogs too - am not sure), she should have had him on the lead and given that he had just approached my puppy and she had tried to call him back (which he ignored), she should have mentioned then that he wasn't good with puppies, and I would have put mine on lead/picked him up. But she didn't and this was the result. She said sorry sort of, said he wouldn't really hurt him and feebly said something like: "I didn't want to come and get him when he had come over to you and was under the table as he would have..." and trailed off. Meaning she was scared of her own dog. Clearly she wasn't too keen on wading in (as I had to do) as she just stood watching while her dog attacked mine! Perhaps she was scared of being bitten, it certainly seemed that way.

Poor puppy. He seems okay but hard to tell under all his fur.I do want him to learnt to ignore other dogs and not just jump up at them all (this IS normal puppy behaviour isn't it?). I do also want to be able to let him off lead in the park as he needs to learn. Any ideas how to teach him? What do your puppies do when approached by other dogs?

The chap who I know and whose dog was there too said it wasn't our fault and she should have either had him on lead or warned us when he approached. He also said that if hers had been on lead and mine had jumped up then it would have been my fault, which I agree with, but at least she could have stopped the dog from going for mine.

Oh dear kings how frightening!
Is he OK?
Maybe the "sorry" was her version of a warning.
Just a thought, but was it a good idea to get inbetween two fighting dogs? I know it wasnt technically a fight as your dog was set upon, but even so, teeth were gnashing. You could have been hurt. But then I'm very sure that I also could not have stood by and watch my puppy mauled. What is the official guidance in this instance? A bucket of water/ hosepipe is hardly useful out in the park.

He seems okay thank you - but was a bit shaken!

Yes it seems so but how the hell was I supposed to know that saying "sorry" when her dog approached meant "by the way my dog is aggressive to other dogs, especially puppies and therefore you might need to be careful" - idiot! (btw clam not angry at you - just at the woman!)

Ha - well the thing is, if it had been a big dog then I would have been too afraid myself. But they weren't moving as he had my pup pinned down and I was going to grab his collar but then just dove in and rescued my pup without thinking. She should have gone to her dog and pulled him off tbh but she wasn't going to, my pup was screaming his head off, her dog was totally ignoring her and if I hadn't done that then god knows how long he would have continued going for! i see your point though! And no idea what official guidance is. I guess if the owner grabs her dog's collar then she is behind the dog and therefore unlikely to get bitten? Not sure - need someone more experienced to come on and advise!

Sorry to hear that Kings :( Though can understand her if she felt frightened. Our puppy starting to worry/scare me, and certainly scares the DC as they won't go out unless she's tied up.

Lots of tears today. At end of tether. Has started to bite more, not less, now seems proper bites too. Put in emergency call to behaviourist as can't carry on. On verge of calling breeder and giving her back :(

Yes but surely if she felt frightened of her own dog (ie she wouldn't even go over to him when he was just sitting next to my puppy as she didn't know what he would do then) and she knew he was dog aggressive in the first place (and knew that if he did go for another dog she wouldn't be able to stop him) surely she should have had him on lead? She shouldn't let him get her into the situation where she is unable to control him/too scared...I think anyway!

Anyway what's done is done but just wondered if anyone reading this (experts maybe) might know what I could do next time/tell me if it was my fault and I should never let pup off lead?!

Oh Happy - really sad. Is there anything that sets her off? It's odd isn't it how some bit an some don't as much. Have you heard from behaviourist? You are doing really well!

Oh happymm, don't do anything rash that you might regret! You will get through this. Get the behaviourist to help first.

Suspect won't hear till Monday from behaviourist.

Kings-it seems that anything and nothing sets her off. She just can't help herself. You might be playing nicely, doing training, or even, as just now, giving her a cuddle on my lap-she just started as trying to nibble my knee, then when I said NO BITING and gave a tug on her collar (not hard just a reminder) she then was writhing trying to turn her head round to bite me! DD then came to give her a cuddle, turned straight round and bit her! Now in crate to calm down.

She just won't settle though, constantly on the move, fidgeting, nibbling. And this doesn't change no matter how much exercise she does or doesn't have-in fact, the more she has the worse she is! Earlier was out with her holding her lead as I sat on a chair outside, she just wouldn't lie down! Was fidgeting, digging, trying to bite the chair, bite my back from behind, even though I was gently stroking her...

:(

Hmm - Happy doesn't sound a million miles away from our pup... He takes a while to calm down if I am sitting in one place outside and he is on the lead...I would say most puppies with lots of energy (like ours) are like that?

Every time I put his collar on he turns round to bite. When we went out this afternoon there were loads of people there and he went mental jumping and biting quite hard. Of course most of them provoked him by putting their fingers in his mouth and playing with him in a rough way so he was biting. Even when I came over he started biting at me and I had to tell him off a few times before he stopped. V over excited. Now crashed in his play pen. Am worried now that perhaps I think he is better than he is - maybe he is the same as yours - sounds fairly similar - just worried perhaps my standards are lower if you see what I mean? So am writing it off as normal puppy energy when perhaps it's not!? He does nip and jump at everyone he meets pretty much unless I pull him off or make them stand and wait for him to calm down....

Behaviourist phoned-quickly as he was going out. Was rather concerned about situation, even though she's young and we've only had her 4wks or so.

Said that sometimes things did not work out and some relationships did not work. Going to talk more on Monday and he'll schedule a visit asap.

Have foregone our walk in the hope she'll not be as loopy. Think she has attention deficit disorder! She's actually sleeping now...typical :o

Hi all, can I join in please?!! I have an 11 week old Lab X Golden Retreiver. She sounds exactly like your pup Happymm so will be following carefully. I am really struggling with the jumping and biting. I have tried the 'ouch' 'no' 'off' etc and each time it seems to wind her up and make her worse. She is a Guide Dog puppy who I will have for a year. I am lucky to have help and advice from my Supervisors. Sounds like they have advised me the same as your behaviourist. She now trails round the house with a soft lead attached. When she bit I would hold her collar. She would then throw herself into a croccodile roll, wriggling on her back and trying to bite. If I let go she would then leap back at me biting more. They said to just gently hold the collar when she is on the floor and not to let go until the tantrum stops. This worked for a day or so, she would then get up, give a shake and walk off. But yesterday she had another almighty mad moment and it didn't work. Other tips were to gently take her to her bed (which is next to the radiator). Give her a kong or something and put the lead onto the radiator so she can't get away. Not to leave her obviously but let her chew kong, calm down etc. This seems to be working better, but I also have young children (8 & 5) so have to constantly be with her the whole time. She is also flinging herself at the sofa etc. Its wearing me out. Have always had Dalmatians and although they are full on, have never had this biting. Let us know how you get on on Monday. Hope I can help support you and vice versa!

I'm in with that Wags! Welcome! That's strange you're pup doing exactly the same thing...was wondering whether our pup was problematical because she's from working stock-but obviously that's not the case for you!

I too, am worn out as she just won't settle so get no peace from her at all...

Just off for walkies, x

happymm, have no puppy experience myself (always had older rescues) but from watching my friend over the road with her cocker....it sounds as though your pup is going through the worst of the teething stage? tbh, my dds behaved a lot like that when they were teething - NOTHING I did made any difference, just time and teeth settling down.

Perhaps some of this phase is as much about protecting your hands and the dc until the teething is done, as it is about training??

Ignore if wrong, jsut a thought

Walkies went well. She was well behaved too...

My inlaws have gone home and DH is back home after a few days away, maybe that has something to do with it? She's currently lying nicely in her basket (though has lead attached round leg of sofa so she can't run away or play up!) Maybe it's the addition of inlaws she finds difficult (though they often stay so she'll have to get used to it) Or maybe DH not being around?

Yesterday could quite happily have given her back. Today, not so sure...

Thanks for that thought Eli-she does seem to have lost a lot of teeth already (is 13wks on tues) so maybe adding into the mix.

Also think as she gets going, it upsets me so she probably picks up on that and maybe I need to try to be calmer in my approach as tend to panic when she bites the DC's.

Another day....:)

Happy what's she like with other dogs? Our puppy goes insane when he sees them and jumps all over them if they come to say hello. And nips. And does the same with any new people. It's very hard to control as they bend down to his level and let them bite him. Not sure what to do - was considering starting a thread on it actually. He did it this morning when on a walk and consequently gets overexcited and starts biting us again. NOT GOOD. And when on sofa btw we always need a chew toy for him to bite as otherwise he rolls on his back and eyes roll back in his head and he thrashes from side to side so need a have a toy handy at all times. He does eventually calm down but honestly sounds similar to yours... Am now starting to worry that he isn't calming down enough!

Kings-She's actually really good with other dogs. Tends to roll over with big dogs so they can lick her bits and little dogs she has a sniff and a play with. Is also really really good on the school run, takes all manner of stroking and grabbing with just a lick really-saves the biting and jumping for my lot!

We don't let her up on the sofa, she has her own special bed in the sitting room. Read somewhere that they need to have that divide...I may have read far far far too much stuff!!!:o

Anyways, she has withdrawn from the precipice! She has been lovely today. Inlaws gone, DH back-maybe that's the problem, maybe she sensed was at the end of my tether and wanted her to go back to whence she came, but has been behaving like the dog we want and need her to be.

Have been firm, but calm, maybe that helps too. We have let her have more freedom too-maybe that helped...don't know why did that as she had been such a monkey, but couldn't be bothered with the endless lead stuff today. I don't know...also, I did give her a gentle one finger tap on her nose when she went to bite me, which definitely stopped her in her tracks. nothing else was working, and had got a bit fed up with it. Gave her something to think about though-her forehead went all wrinkly like she was having a big think-anyhow, she hasn't done it since!

Feel much more positive though which is a good thing, and not planning on phoning the breeder tomorrow for extraction! :)

I'm sure pups pick up on feelings - just like kids! Think 'toddler', you have clearly dealt with some of those - might help the confidence

I bet a lot of it is time. Really. You sound like you're doing a great job.

We have had a better day today Happymm as well. This morning started badly when she leapt at my daughter on the sofa and scratched her face. We also have never let her on the sofa. So she has had a very structured day today. Lots of tug playing, I make her leave, then sit then throw the toy and so on. We also have a 'doggy' paddling pool, one of those small plastic ones, so she has played in there. Did a grooming session (I have to do this daily) with DD holding her favourite squeeky toy and just letting her slightly chew on it whilst I groom. That went well and involved DD in a 'good' session.

One thing that has helped is when I do a tug game with her I constantly rub my other hand all over her, so one pulling the toy, one rubbing all over her. She then focuses on the toy not my hand. It was getting to the stage I couldn't get a hand on her without being nipped but since the hand rubbing over her that has improved. Its just when the red mist comes that the nipping starts. Bit like whitching hour when the dc's were tiny! Had a nipping session, very calmly held her, she flung herself around, finally settled. She got up then came straight back to me to nip so very calmly took her to the radiator and clipped her to it for a minute. Let her off. This happened about 3 times but all very calm then she was fine. Really hard work though isn't it?! Had small play session with DD where DD had toy, made her leave it then threw it for her etc. That went OK. She went to jump and nip once but I was near enough to grab trailing lead, and give a no and a jerk of lead. Am taking her to her first training class tomorrow so will hook up with my supervisor again. Will report back any more things to try! Keep your chin up, I keep telling myself 'its a phase'.

Looking forward to hearing your tips Wags, as it sounds like our pups could be twins!
Our behaviourist said definitely not to do tug games until she is much more settled and under control, as they get too too excited, and can nip their way up the tug IYSWIM, and also encourages you to get into a combat position?

Have done some training, doing sit probably 99% of the time, now working on down-did it once!!! Really pleased. Doing the clicker thing-she stops on a dime when hears it. :)

Wags! Welcome! When I saw your post earlier I thought great news for Happymm!!!

We have had an OK weekend. All holes in garden have been blocked up so pup is now free in the garden - I was worried as she sometimes looks as if she would charge the kids but as she has the chance to go off and sniff about it seems to have chilled her out a bit. Also worn her out more as she is running around constantly busy. So much easier to have doors open and be in/out garden rather than dragging a dog/kid with me the whole time.

Kings- our pup goes MENTALwith new people and puppies. At puppy training she was a fizzing rocket on a lead! I put her on the lead with our visitors this afternoon as their son was very wary and crying so I thought that best - when she got over the initial arrival she was fine just that first bit.

Should be a good week next week if only because I am seeing Take That tomorrow!

Am SO jealous Alp-couldn't get tickets!

Just wanted to thank you all for your support over the last few days. I've really appreciated it.

And am so glad have someone with a twin pup (though not glad you're suffering too Wags!)

:)