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The doghouse

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Original poster

Advice please on training for LEAVE IT!

17 replies

Virgowoo · 24/05/2011 20:51

Apologies for shouting but my endless patience is starting to wear.

Adult dog came to us relatively untrained at 18 months, picked up the basics quite well but still struggling with the leave.

He's fixated on balls and loves to retrieve, the only problem is getting the bloody ball off him after he's come back!

He's really good at respecting your 'space', if you like, so if he accidentally drops it and it's nearer to you, he'll leave it alone and let you pick it up. He'll be interested in the ball if it's in your hand, but he doesn't try to 'mug' you for it and will run ahead some way but keeps coming back to check you have the ball still.

Ideally, I'd like to train him to retrieve, sit or lie and leave it as he's a big dog and whoever is walking needs to be confident he's not going for the ball when you go to pick it up.

Right now, the retrieve is fine, I just can't understand why he won't give it up if he loves chasing it so much..it's like the possession of it is more important.

I'm being calm, firm, consistent etc and he's well trained otherwise and behaviour has improved 1000%, just struggling a bit with this.

Any suggestions would be most welcome.

OP posts:

WhereTheWildThingsWere · 24/05/2011 20:53

Super quick fix, have you tried taking out two identical balls?

TooManyBlossoms · 24/05/2011 20:55

Virgo my dog is clearly related to yours! Marking my place as I'd love to know how to get my stupid mutt to drop the ball without having to wrestle it from her jaws .

Original poster

Virgowoo · 24/05/2011 20:56

Haha. He will chase the second one with the first still in his mouth, then stand over the second. He will drop the first and pick up the second, repeat as many times as you like.

Possession seems to be the key.

OP posts:

emptyshell · 24/05/2011 21:01

I tried throwing a treat to give me the "jaws off" moment to start teaching mine "give".... the lil git started putting his paw on top of the ball while he reached for the treat to make sure he kept hold of it!

WhereTheWildThingsWere · 24/05/2011 21:07

Hmm, dogs are usually possessive like that because it has become rewarding for them ie- getting the ball off of him has turned into a bit of a game, or maybe he feels he need to be possessive if he has had a lot of things taken off of him in the wrong way before he came to you.

You probably need to start at home or in the garden if possible be seated, let him have his ball, call him over and offer him a particually droolsworthy treat, hopefully he will drop the ball and take the treat (the treat must be good hotdog/roast chicken/roast pork/cheese) as soon as he has finished, just give him the ball back, don't throw it, just hand it over.

Repeat alot and over a few sessions, say nothing.

When he is doing it reliably say 'drop it' as he drops it.

Repeat as above.

Now call him and ask him to drop it before handing over the goods.

Then call him ask him to 'drop it' pick up the ball and then hand over the goods.

Then start throwing the ball.

When reliable, try outside.

It will take lots of sessions before he understands that giving you he ball is a good thing and that you always give it back.

Original poster

Virgowoo · 24/05/2011 21:15

Thank you for that WildThing that all sounds eminently sensible.

When he arrived, he was really keen on pulling type games which I don't do as I think it just encourages this not giving stuff up behaviour. I think his previous owners made a big thing of this, which I've tried to undo. I think you are right that this possession thing is either because they were snatching toys or got him excited about it. He was very easily wound up when he first came to us.

He's much better at giving up garden toys because he knows I wont do the tugging thing. He also knows no toys in the house so he'll drop a ball at the front door. The problem seems to lie with balls + park = arseholeness.

I was hoping for a magic trick, but I think I need to put the hours in, clearly.

OP posts:

kid · 24/05/2011 23:24

I can vouch for the method wildthing has suggested.
My lump of a pup prefers to play tug if war rather than hand a toy over. But with the temptation of a tasty treat, he knows it's best to drop.
Tonight, he was even dropping his toy without me even having any treats. He was just happy to chase his latest favourite toy and bring it back to me. He has picked it up very quickly indeed :)

midori1999 · 25/05/2011 00:05

It is totally normal and natural doggy behaviour for them to want to 'possess' things. So, what is in their mouth is theirs and they aren't going to let it go unless there's a reason to.

Does he have a good 'leave' command for other things? To teach him to 'leave' then hold a treat in one fist, so the dog knows you have it. Let him try an dget it out of your hand, but make sure he can't. Eventually he will stop trying to get it for a second and pull back, the instant he does this, say 'leave' and give him a treat from your other hand. Repeat lots and gradually increase the time between him pulling away from the first treat and being given the treat with the other hand. Her will soon learn the quickest way to get the treat is by leaving it alone.

Then practice with the ball. You will need something really tasty, salami is quite good as tasty and smelly. When he brings the ball to you, show him the treat and then when he leaves the ball say 'leave' and give him the treat. If he doesn't drop the ball when you offer him the treat dropping the treat on the floor or throwing a couple of foot away should help.

You do need to swap the ball for something he percieves as higher value. You can use the tug game to your advantage for this. If he will not drop the ball for a treat, then offer him a game of tug in return for dropping the ball. Then you can offer him the ball for the tug toy. Playing tug won't encourage him not to give things up, he just needs to learn that giving things up = something much better instead.

sb6699 · 25/05/2011 00:22

Thanks midori.

Glad its not just my mutt that will retrieve but then refuse to give the ball back.

Funnily enough he's really good at "leave it" in the house (we had a problem with chewing) but when playing its a different ball game altogether - see what I did there

Original poster

Virgowoo · 25/05/2011 01:19

1st try in the house: not what I'd call a roaring success.
Think this might be a lengthy process.

What length of 'training sessions' would you do at this?
He seemed to get a bit stressed out by the giving up bit. We did about 10 mins for a first time. When we've been training other things, he would repeat forever for food and we would stop when I got bored.

If left with the ball while I'm waiting for him to give it up, he'll chew it and get quite worked up so he's not really paying much attention to the treat. I think he's made a connection though and I think I got at least 1 genuine 'leave' on purpose to get the treat.

Have to pick the bits of chewed up tennis ball out of my rug now. Ciao.

OP posts:

WhereTheWildThingsWere · 25/05/2011 07:01

I you have been using 'leave' in the park and he has not been doing it, I would change the command so you are starting afresh.

But to begin with don't use any command, he doesn't understand what you want and you need to do that first before you name the action.

What are you using for a treat? Can you ramp it up a bit, you need something that is very high value, the idea is just to offer him the treat so he has to let go of the ball to get it.

10 minutes a go is about right though.

minimu1 · 25/05/2011 07:52

I wouldn't use leave it for this at all.
When the dog has the ball in his mouth gently take hold of his collar and get a really smelly bit of hotdog and hold it in front of his nose. As he releases the ball say give and let him have the hotdog.

If he does not drop the ball put him on a lead and ignore. When he eventually does drop the ball be very enthusiastic and say give and the reward is to have the ball thrown again.

Original poster

Virgowoo · 25/05/2011 18:08

Yes, took your advice, I wasn't using any command at all, just making a noise now & again to try to get his attention.

Treat was sliced deli garlic sausage. He would walk on water any other time for that. Might try a bit of cheese instead, see if that makes a difference. He's one of the greediest dogs I have ever seen, so food usually works a treat. Think it shows how much he doesn't want to give up that ball to ignore sausage for it.

BTW, tried chucking the sausage away from him and when he realised that I would take the ball when he left it, he took the ball with him, dropped it between his feet, ate the sausage & came back. Dog's not thick.

Will persevere. Thank you for advice.

OP posts:

minimu1 · 25/05/2011 18:43

What type of dog is he?

Original poster

Virgowoo · 25/05/2011 19:16

at huge patterdale.

American Bulldog. About the same weight as my niece.
Which is why I require his co-operation in this matter.

OP posts:

SoupDragon · 25/05/2011 19:23

I taught Dill to drop with the aid of a clicker and lots of bacon. When he eventually bought the ball back, I would say drop and offer bacon. he would have to drop the ball in anticipation of the bacon. I then clicked and gave him the bacon. He got it surprisingly quickly but I have to start again as we let it slide after the initial success.

Original poster

Virgowoo · 25/05/2011 21:30

Hilarious.

Won't drop it for me, but WILL let you take it out of his mouth for a dairylea triangle. The conflicted torture in his eyes is silently creasing me up.

Today's development is that he will proffer mouth for treat while standing on the ball. Should he be given a treat for that? It's technically not in his mouth but I think that's just cheating - he's not really giving it up.

OP posts:

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