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Advantages of training with clicker or whistle?

49 replies

Kingsroadie · 16/05/2011 15:02

As per title really...Would you also use verbal commands? Is either a clicker or a whistle "better"? What are the advantages/disadvantages of either? (Apart from obviously if you are doing gundog training and you want to call the dogs back from far away without bellowing across the field and disturbing the guns or the birds!)

Thanks!

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minimu1 · 16/05/2011 15:07

A clicker marks a behaviour - it is not a command.

So you would teach a behaviour with a clicker give it a command that could be verbal, whistle or even visual.

You can drop the clicker once the behaviour is fully understood.

I do use a clicker to teach a behaviour but also use Yes word, and even a thumbs up command for deaf dogs and dogs I work at a distance.

There is a train of thought that says that the clicker sound is the most efficient and easy for the brain to understand and in my experience clicker trained dogs are more accurate than ones that are trained with words as a marker.

Kingsroadie · 16/05/2011 15:15

Minimu - thanks a lot - very helpful. So really I suppose a clicker is quite different from using a whistle - ie it isn't used for the same thing... Would you recommend whistle training (assuming you have used one)? What about just using command words? Thank you!

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minimu1 · 16/05/2011 15:22

Yep thats right you would use a clicker and a whistle for different things.

I use both whistle and commands - it depends where I am . In the house obviously it is easier to call "come fido" than it is to whistle.
Out on the moors it is easier for me to use a whistle.
In agility I use commands
Whatever works for you.

There are advantages to whistles as it sounds the same whereas your voice can show emotion that may or not be favourable to the situation.

Spamspamspam · 16/05/2011 15:22

minimu, I wondered if you would mind answering some questions I have please? Although you have practically answered my question in your post above...

I was worrying about training with the clicker due to husband and daughter maybe not doing it when I am not there or when they walk Maggie without me or when they play etc. For example, we have taught Maggie off and down without the clicker just praise and treats so I take it that I don't need to clicker for those words or should I carry on but introduce the clicker? What about if you don't use the clicker every time when learning a new word? I don't really want my daughter using the clicker so if I am teaching Maggie recall and daughter uses the same word in the garden but doesn't click or treat is it going to be confusing for the dog? My daughter is a bit nervous of giving Maggie treats especially when she is hyper and they are playing and daughter sort of throws the treat out of nerves or doesn't give it to her quickly enough if Maggie is being a bit muggy for it - upshot is I don't want my daugther treating and clicking yet, she will probably get it wrong so is it okay for her just to use the word and say good girl and stroke rather than have a click/treat every time?

minimu1 · 16/05/2011 15:31

First of all don't worry - enjoy your new puppy Smile

Dogs are really adatable and will work with what ever they get. My DH has never used a clicker in his life yet manages to have well trained dogs (as I train them with the clicker and he gives them the commands!)

If you are the only one that clicker trains you will have a dog that works for you and will eventually work for the other family members when she has learned the behaviour. If you train on your own the dog will pick things up quickly with you. The dogs though will always be up to play work and be with the person who clicker trains Grin

You are right that some things do not need to be clicker trained. eg waiting in the crate until asked to come out, waiting before eating, teaching a stay, I don't ever teach a recall with a clicker so it is adaptable.

How old is your daughter? I would like to work on the way Maggie is taking treats. Hold a treat in your hand and if Maggie goes to grab it close your fingers around the treat and say "gently" if the dog comes in fast again close your fingers when the dog comes to take the treat gently praise and give the treat. Your daughter can then give the food and the dog should be gentle.

So after all the waffle don't worry - you can clicker train and the dog will then learn the command and will listen to others who have not clicker trained the dog. Don't let the other family members tell the dog off though if the dog does not obey - she is still learning.

Spamspamspam · 16/05/2011 15:46

Thanks, all really useful information. Absolutely no waffle at all, I could read your posts for hours.

Yes will definately work with daughter and treats, definately a good idea :)

One last thing if you don't mind :) I taught Maggie Off from the Perfect Puppy book i.e. hold treat, let her lick and try and get it and say off, once she moves her head back give her the treat. Should I just carry on with off and get her doing it consistently and get my daughter to do this or should I introduce gently?

Thanks for your help

Kingsroadie · 16/05/2011 17:27

Minimu - sorry another question! If I did want to use a whistle with a dog whilst out in open countryside or on a shoot for example, but not necessarily in the park with my daughter, when would be best to start? Thank you!

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minimu1 · 16/05/2011 17:35

Well after saying I don't whistle in the house that is exactly what I would do to start with!

Blow the whistle (usually three times for recall) and give the dog his meal

Do this indoors for several days. Then put the dog in another room and blow the whistle and the dog will come charging to you for his meal - give him his dinner.

Then you can put the dog outside and blow the whistle and give him his meal.

You can now start to blow the whistle and give him a treat when he starts to come to you begin now to increase the distance and distractions gradually

A dog trained to the whistle (I always treat to a recall whistle to start with - I know some gun dog trainers do not like treats - I do with a passion).

Once the behaviour is learnt you can do it in different locations but I would try it in the park and out on shoots

Kingsroadie · 16/05/2011 17:54

Once again - v helpful! Thank you. You won't get rid of me now... Grin

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TomYumSoup · 17/05/2011 10:38

There are a few whistles to choose from eg. gun dog/collie/very basic. Is there a whistle you would recommend for a greyhound. TIA.

Kingsroadie · 17/05/2011 10:44

Yes good point - how does one choose a whistle?

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Booboostoo · 17/05/2011 11:05

Clickers and whistles are two entirely different things.

The clicker is used to mark a behaviour which is then reinforced by the reward (treat). So puppy does a down, you click to say 'yes that is what I wanted', and then you have time to produce the treat (because the click is associated with the treat so the dog knows it is coming). The advantage of the click is that it is neutral and immediate. You can give the treat directly but there is usually a delay and the dog can misidentify the behaviour, e.g. dog does a down, you get your treat by which time the dog has moved its head, you treat so what you are treating is the movement of the head not the down - result confusion.

Another advantage of the clicker is that it can be easily used by other people and the idea is very easily understood by children.

However the click does not produce the behaviour, i.e. you do not click to make the dog go into a down. At the same time you do not use a verbal command either because dogs don't speak english! Dogs only understand commands AFTER they have been trained to them, they cannot be trained to do things by talking to them as if they understood english. So, for example to teach a sit, you take a treat put it at the level of the dog's nose and lift your hand so as they dog follows the treat his bum hits the floor (you are luring the dog into the position), you now have the behaviour, you click to mark it, and reward with a treat. Repeat 3 times, rewarding each time, then wait...behaviour that is rewarded is likely to be repeated so by now chances are the dog will offer a sit all by himself, so you click and treat again. A few days/weeks down the line when you are getting a reliable sit you can start adding hand and verbal cues for the behaviour, i.e. as the dog goes to sit you say 'sit', but since you get what you name, you only want to say 'sit' when the dog is about to do it anyway (otherwise you can end up saying ' sit, sit, sit SIT GO ON SIT SIT SIT' and getting nothing). Now you are associating the word with the behaviour, when that is established you have a line of communication set up with the dog so that you say sit and he understands what you want.

A great book on clicker training is "Go Click!" by Elizabeth Kershaw, but it would also be good to go to classes where someone can walk you through the basic principles and exercises, if you are interested in this method of training.

I am not very familiar with whistle training, but as far as I understand it the whistle is a command which works very well with some dogs because it attracts their attention. So you whistle and they are likely to turn around and look at you or even come back to you because the noise is interesting.

Slubberdegullion · 17/05/2011 11:41

I only use my whistle outdoors and I use it in place or a verbal cue or hand signal.

So for instance I can say "down", or I can use the hand signal for down, or I can use a single blast of the whistle for down. My dog knows that for any of those cues she has to lie down Grin. The main advantage of the whistle the the noise carries way way waaaaaaaay further than my screechy old voice and pierces above wind noise, tractors etc etc.

For the initial training of a down I used a clicker, and when the behaviour was established I added in hand signals, verbal cues and then the whistle in that order.

minimu1 · 17/05/2011 14:03

good gundog whistle is dog whistles 211 1/2

Although being a bit of a smart alec I have a different one for each of my dogs so they all respond to a different pitch. Gun dog though uses 211.5.

Slubberdegullion · 17/05/2011 14:09

I have a 211 1/2 (no pea Grin) whistle. Lovely it is

Minimu I would love to see you in full dog walking set up. So how many whistles do you have, plus treats, clickers, poo bags, balls, tuggy toys...

You must have a coat of many pockets.

Kingsroadie · 17/05/2011 14:12

Thank you!

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minimu1 · 17/05/2011 14:23

Oh I am so stylish it is untrue. lumpy pockets with tennis balls, a slight aroma of slightly rotten cheese and green poo bags hanging loosely out of rear pockets and multi coloured whistles around my neck,. clicker strapped at all times to my wrist with a fashionable hair tie - just waiting for the fashion houses to catch up with me and make me mainstream Grin

Kingsroadie · 17/05/2011 14:26

Do you think clicker works better than just command training?

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Slubberdegullion · 17/05/2011 14:26

It's a look I'm attempting to emulate.

It's only a matter of time before 'dog walker chic' becomes bang on trend.

Slubberdegullion · 17/05/2011 15:49

Kingsroadie I can only give you my testimony but I think clicker training is awesome and makes training new behaviours not only pretty straight forward but also lots of fun.

I wish I could give you my dog's testimony too but will have to make do with telling you her response when I bring out a clicker. Ears pricked, tail wagging madly, eyes totally fixed on my face "oooooh what are we going to do NOW" expression. She loves clicker training more than I do.

There are no disadvantages to using one. I think every dog owner should have a clicker.

Booboostoo · 17/05/2011 17:40

I've had puppy go retrieve the clicker from the kitchen to persuade me to do more training!

Slubberdegullion · 17/05/2011 17:44

LOL

Kingsroadie · 17/05/2011 17:49

Interesting - I think I might need to read a book a bit more on how to do clicker training first! Is the form that you click when the dog displays the behaviour, then treat and repeat. Do you have to wait for the dog to do the behaviour by itself or do you use a verbal command too? Then when the dog displays the behaviour regularly you introduce a verbal command and gradually decrease clicker use? What if I forgot my clicker and we were out?

When I trained a friend's dog (We used to have a summer house and they had a puppy so in the summer hols I would go into their house and play with the dog/try and train him!) to sit/lie down etc I used the command method. Ie holding treat up, saying sit as dog sat, praising and treating etc. So that is all I know. Perhaps I should stop bothering you all being lazy and do my research properly! Grin

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ellangirl · 17/05/2011 18:09

Are there any disadvantages to using a whistle for recall when out? It's just my voice really does not carry well, and I want to work on recall with my older dog. I thought perhaps introducing a whistle properly might give a new start with the recall training IYKWIM.

Avantia · 17/05/2011 18:16

No disadvanatges to using whistle when out for recall - except when you forget to take it !

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