Gah! angst over crate training and nights

[Spamspamspam]

I know it is still early days but feeling like I have buggared things up a bit :(

Pup did well on Friday night thanks to your advice. Saturday she did well but she did wake me and I did got to her at 6.40.

Yesterday she ran around all day - no stopping her playing with my daughter, she had a few sleeps but those were mainly on my daughters lap. I cleaned out her crate thoroughly and washed her bed as I wasn't sure if the water she spilled was water or if indeed she had weed in her bed. I didn't secure the bottom plastic thing back in the crate properly - didn't know at the time. Pup woke me up at 5.30 am crying to I went to her no eye contact and took her out for a wee and put her back in crate, she has spilled her water so I put a bit more in. I noticed the bottom of the crate was pushed forward so I pushed it back and put her bed back to the end of the crate and went to bed again. I wasn't really looking in great detail as I wanted as little fuss as possible. I went back to bed with the hope that she would settle. She did and didn't, cried for half an hour then settled and then cried on and off. I went down at seven, put the kettle on, opened blinds etc for a few minutes as I didn't want her to think I was down just for her. I took her out after a fee minutes, said morning, went out for a wee etc.

Noticed water was empty, bottom of the crate was again moved forward and sticking out a bit, took her bed out and it was absolutely soaking :( What had happened was the crate bottom had moved forward so the bed was right up at the door and her water had gone straight into her bed. Bed is drying but going to take ages, I worked out how to put the bottom in correctly (stupid woman!) and secure it. I am now worried that I have completely messed up her feelings about the crate being a safe haven. I have put a blanket in there whilst waiting for bed to dry but she is sleeping outside the crate :(

Any thoughts? Husband worried that she is "getting used" to crying and worried she is going to keep doing this every morning.

Also is there a recommended water bowl that really doesn't tip over? At present I have a metal one that sits in a ring which is attached to the side of the crate, it looks to be far better than her other bowl and I can't understand how she is pulling it out of the ring that holds it in place.

"woke me up at 5.30 am crying to I went to her no eye contact"

"as I didn't want her to think I was down just for her."

Why ever not? She is still a baby....

Mind you i'm neither into crates nor clickers

she will get there......

.....she is gorgeous - and she looks like KKSlider

Folk, I am following advice given to me over the last week. I have read hundreds of threads about crate training and the advice seems pretty consistent. I want my puppy to learn quickly to sleep in her crate until 7.00am I don't mind getting up and taking her to the toilet at all but I don't want her to think that if she cries I will come running. Everything I have read says don't respond to her crying.

I feel really bad that she was crying because she was uncomfortable, I could cry myself :(

However I have just put some tasty treats in her crate, warmed up her teddy and she is sleeping in there, we have had a cuddle and she seems happy - I hope she doesn't hate me!

She won't hate you. It sounds like you are doing a great job with her.

She does look very small to be holding herself all night though. Whippy didn't manage this until she was about 18 weeks old.

When she cries go down to her, pop her outside for a wee. Treat her if she wees/poos but don't talk to her or fuss her. Just pop her back into her crate if she doesn't do anything.

She'll soon learn that crying in the night = being removed from her snug bed and put out into the cold. It took Whippy about a week to learn this. After this she woke us about once a night and only when she needed a wee.

Why is there paper in her crate? Are you paper training her? You shouldn't encourage them to go in the crate at all. It gives very mixed messages and can lengthen the training process. I don't bother with paper training at all. It's easier and quicker just to train them to go straight outside.

You can buy bowls which clip to the side of the crate at Pets At Home. Also vetbed and fleece blankets dry really quick if she does spill anything. My trainer advised me to only wash the bedding about once a week and not everytime they wee, otherwise they will learn that can wee in there and it will be replaced with nice fresh bedding straight away, however this advice was for my adult dog, not a pup. I personally wouldn't do it for a puppy, but it's a thought if she carries on messing in her crate.

Of course she won't hate you. I apologise for butting in...i realise my ethos / methods isn't very popular at the mo....

.....enjoy her!

Thanks Dooin

Going to pets at home in a minute to buy something more secure for her water. Reason I put the paper in the crate is because she keeps getting the bowl out of its ring (I really don't know how, it feels really secure) and I don't want her bed getting wet! but you are right she was used to toileting on paper in her previous home so must be giving her mixed messages. Although to be fair I am 95% certain that she hasn't weed in the crate, it never smells of wee only of dog, however as I can't be sure because of all the bloomin water spillages I also thought that it would be again easier to clean having paper down and also would stop the potential wee going onto her bed! The reason I washed it was because I thought if it smells of wee it might encourage her to wee in it.....gah this is all so hard!

One other thing there is no paper anywhere else in the house and we are training her to go straight outside, she has managed this very well. I have to date had six accidents in 6 days and those have been when I haven't been vigilant and let other people watch her for me....I work from home, we have no visitors or distractions so going to be super vigilant this week and hope we can crack it!

Thanks Folk - don't worry you are not butting - any advice is helpful :)

Spam I had a difficult night last nightwith our new pup 8 weeks, so I can sympathise. He cried at 12 for a wee, then again at 4 ish, went out with him, no action so put him back in crate. He then fussed for a good half hour but I ignored him as thought I was training him to yelp for attention at night. Then in the morning he had pooed in the crate, not on the bedding area, though.

When I was out to school for 15 mins max, he pooed again in crate, despite having been out just before I left.

We are having a lot of success in the day time but nights seem to be the problem. I can't tell whether he's crying for a poo or wee or just to get attention.

Don't think puppies need water overnight, it might be worth trying without to save all the hassle. I've never put water in my labs crate. From 9wks he was in crate from 11pm - 6am, out for a wee at 6, then had his breakfast of dry kibble, then usually had a drink after that so obv didn't wake up thirsty

I never gave mine water overnight. Two labs. Both in crates at night from day one.

If I heard them I would get up and let them out for a wee and then get them back in the crate and go back up to bed. First pup never had to get up in the night. Second one I did but she grew out of it pretty much.

She does get us up early though. 6ish usually. I now know the "I'm bored' cry from the "I need a wee" cry and will let her out for a wee if I need to but even if it is 5.30 I put her straight back in the crate. Not starting my day till 6.30 earliest!

But as I said I have never given water in the crate.

I don't give mine water in crate, and last food at 6. Buda how many times would you let them out each night?

Asinine - can't really remember. Sometimes once or twice at the beginning. Then it tapered off. The older dog wees before bed but the younger one doesnt usually. No matter how long I stand out there! She just sits at my feet waiting to go back in!

So if I think it's more urgent cries I will get up just in case. Even now and she is 11 months.

Thanks. Kids were much easier

Thanks for your replies. I thought I had read that you must never take water up for your dog.

I went to petsathome to try and get a better bowl but couldn't find one so came up with superglueing the bowl to the ring that holds it, I will still be able to get it out of crate because it hooks onto the side. If we still have issues I might consider not giving her any water as this seems to be something a lot of you have done.

Spam we had the same dilemma about water, which was why we didn't crate immediately (god I wish we had done!).

Pretty quickly I reasoned that the most comfortable thing for a dog is to be asleep in a warm dry bed, and not squelching around in either water or wee which our clumsy oaf pup definitely would've been! We moved to crate, with a restricted area, no water, and he got used to it very quickly. As long as they can hydrate throughout the day and last/first thing I can't really see a problem with it.

If it helps - in some ways I think you're over thinking it!

Your puppy is tiny - her bladder and bowel are too small to be able to hold herself overnight and her muscles are still not reliable enough for full control. No matter what you do, it's going to take time for her to understand what you want and then to grow big enough to manage it. What I'm trying to say is that there will be weeks more of broken nights and unpredictable wees and poos - it's to be expected. You'd expect it with a baby - and a pup is not much different.

If she cries in the night, it's because she needs something. Either comfort, or a wee or poo. She has no other way of asking for help. She has only been alive for 11 weeks and she absolutely relies on you to fix things for her.

My advice is to make the crate fit her bed - there shouldn't be any spare space. Put in a cardboard divider if necessary at this stage. Take out the water bowl - like toddlers - if there's water knocking about, there will be mess. They don't need access to water between say, 10.30 pm and 6.00 am. Also take out anything like paper or puppy pads. Don't give conflicting messages about where you want her to pee otherwise house training will take forever.

Make the bed as cosy as you possibly can - I always cover the crate to make it more den like and keep out draughts. Your puppy is still too young to successfully regulate her body temperature and is still used to sleeping in a big pile of other puppies. I expect she was really bloody cold the night she got her bed drenched. At her age, I am still putting warm wheaties in a puppies bed.

I also set an alarm at 2 or 3 hourly intervals through the night and I go down to the pup and scoop them up and take them outside which ideally means you go to them before they cry for you. The intervals stretch out as the puppy grows until they can go all night. I absolutely don't want mess in their beds and will do anything I need to to avoid it. I think it gives very conflicting messages and pretty much sets them up to fail. My thinking is this - if they need to pee and try to tell you and you ignore them, how on earth will they ever get understand that that's exactly what you do want during the day? It's asking the impossible.

It will be tiring and she will cry. Honestly, it's part and parcel of having a puppy. Our dogs are without exception absolutely house trained by the time they're 6 months old BUT before then, you can't expect them to be bullet proof. They will have accidents.

Another thing which might help her nighttime sleeping is managing her day time sleeping better. As she is so young, she needs good quality sleep in the day. She needs time to wind down and sleep. It sounds as though she was wildly overstimulated on Sunday which has almost certainly caused the poor sleep on Sunday night. Try a quieter day today with less stimulation and see what happens.

Hi, thanks again for all the advice. The last 24 hours has been much better :)

I took her water out of the crate, did my usual bed routine - out for wee and poo, warmed up teddy covered crate in blankets and put her to bed. She woke me at half five and went out for a wee and went back in crate, here I thought I might have a problem as she was UP!!! boing boing boing but I put her back in her crate and there was a bit of low level whimpering for a bit but she settled until we got her properly up at 7.00. No wet bed and no wet crate so I know she wasn't peeing in there - didn't think she had as I also go and get her but just wasn't 100% sure because the spilt water was masking things.

The overstimulation on Sunday was entirely my fault and I realise that now. She has a very definate routine, gets up and has breakfast lots of smiling and hellos at everyone, has a play in the garden with my daughter until she goes to school at 8.10. Plays with me until about quarter to nine then comes in and goes into crate with open door and sleeps, has a play at lunch time with me or husband and then usually sleeps until my daugther comes home from school, then it is a play time, hellos lots of smiling and cuddling and about 7.00pm she is looking for a lap to sit on until I put her in crate for bed. The problem with Sunday is that everytime she saw my daughter she wanted to play, my daughter did sit and watch tv with her on a couple of occasions and she snoozed but she didn't get as much down time as she does on other days. I have now started shutting crate door and leaving her alone - did it twice yesterday for 15 mins and will do it twice today and keep it up this week gradually increasing the time - come Saturday/Sunday I will be able to firmly tell my daugther that whilst crate door is shut she leaves the puppy alone for down time.

Had one accident yesterday but she seems to be really getting to grips with going outside. Although I take her out regularly I do keep the dining room door open slightly and she does take herself out for a wee/poo - I allways follow her so I know if and when she has performed.

All good here - thanks all for your help :)

Sounds better!