Gun dog training

[MoshiMoshi]

We have a bright and energetic 3 month old Hungarian Vizsla puppy that I would like to receive gun dog training as I intend to bring her hunting with me. In order to run with the hounds she would need to be well trained and I do not think I can do this myself nor would I want to run the risk if anything adverse happened with people, horses and hounds around.

Can anyone advise on what the minimum age is and what the stages of training are broadly so I can gauge where we are, where we need to be, and what I need to consider. My mum has just been diagnosed with cancer and things are a bit pear shaped at the moment so, together with our four kids, life is a bit hectic although enjoyable. I am just keen to ensure I don't miss a crucial stage/window of prime opportunity for learning.

I have spoken with a chap based in Surrey who used to work on a farm and then spent 10 years training police dogs who seems to relate to what I am looking for and where I am coming from. He said she is a bit young to take on a residential basis but can see that a fortnight under the circumstances would probably be of significant benefit to me now. It would then depend on how I take on board what he has done as to how much time she may need following on from that (he mentioned a week or so here and there).

Does this sound usual and likely? This is our first family dog although I had dogs as a kid and I am keen to ensure I do the right thing.

Sorry for the essay and I would be really grateful for any responses.

Moshi, I'm slightly confused by your choice of language. You talk about hunting and about gun dogs. In the UK, hunting with dogs and horses is generally done with packs of foxhounds with a couple of terriers brought along in a 4 x 4. Dogs belonging to mounted members of the field are not brought along, and foot followers can bring their dog, but they do not participate in any hunting, simply get in the way/get excited.

There are gun packs in rural upland areas, such as in Wales but these do not use any horses, as usually the terrain is too steep, and the aim is not to have a prolonged chase, but simply to flush the fox out to waiting shooters. There are very rarely spectators, and arrangements are much looser.

Horses would not be used or taken to a shooting occasion if you were out shooting say game birds - you'd have your gun dog with you but no other animals.

What is it you actually want to do with your dog?

I've certainly never heard of a hunt allowing other types of dog to run with hounds.

Friends had a Hungarian Vizla that was gorgeous but they need huge amounts of exercise on a daily basis.

If the "trainer" is trying to tell you he can provide training for your dog to be a part of the local hunt, then you are being misled and he is taking the p*.

I know that you can send gun dogs off for training (for shooting) but as I understand things, these days it's seen as better if the owner works with the dog and they train together. Don't shoot myself, so am fairly hazy about this side of things, and most of the folk I know who do shoot, seem to have had dogs for ages, so it doesn't come up. Hope someone with recent shooting experience can help? The other option is to go to a specialist shooting website where gundog training will be discussed in more detail.

Sorry if I sound confused (probably because I am!) I had spoken with someone who had sent his dog for gun dog training but said this really helped as he took his dog hunting with him. The dog didn't run with the hounds but with him which is what I was hoping to do. The hunt I ride out with does indeed have foot followers with their dogs but when I mentioned bringing the dog with me on horseback they seemed amenable to the idea. But I can see that the dog will need to be very well trained in order to not get overwhelmed by the days events. The trainer I think would train as appropriate and it is me that is referring to gun dog training in the absence of knowledge as to what else to refer to it as!

Does this sound more feasible? Thanks for your advice.

Moshi, are you in the UK? I have NEVER heard of a dog other than a hound (as in pack of) going out with the field in this country? Obviously there's an exception for hunt terriers.

A dog that ran with the field would stand a very good chance of getting trodden on by half a tonne of galloping horse, kicked or even bitten. I can imagine it would also be deeply offputting for any mounted followers, and you run the risk of it going selfemployed while out and deciding to run off and investigate an interesting smell/field of sheep.

Gun dog training is very specialised and deals with things like getting your dog accustomed to the sound of guns, having a soft mouth, doing a retrieve, possibly locating game, being obedient to commands, waiting patiently by master, etc etc. Although gun dog training is very thorough and is therefore expensive/specialised, I can't see it being needed for most ordinary dogs - you'd be better off investing in a good local trainer who can work with you on a one to tone basis each week. No matter how good a trainer is you will still have to spend a good deal of time each day with your pup, practising what has been taught and working together.

I agree that your post is somewhat confusing and I have never heard of a fox hunt allowing riders to take their dogs with them, no matter how well trained, and a lot of people who do hunt on horseback also shoot and therefore also have gundogs.

IMO, any sort of training needs to be done with dog and owner, residential courses for the dogs are often just a waste of time as the owner needs training just as much as the dog does. So, the dog may come back seeming well trained, but over time the dog's behaviour will lapse as the owner does not know how to maintain that behaviour well enough. Residential courses are popular for gundog training though, and I suspect this is part of the reason that on many shoots I have seen very ill behaved dogs and often their owners have resorted to the use of shock collars because they simply do not know how to get their dogs to behave.

If you want gundog training, you need to find a specialist local Gundog trainer (google will help, as might Yellow Pages) who will train you as well as your dog on a one to one basis and/or in a group. You can start them now/soon, depending on the trainers individual policy, although most will start them between 3-6 months. I have known dogs as young as 6 months old picking up, but I wouldn't recommend working them that hard due to hips. The ones I have known to be hip scored after this have had dreadfully high scores.

Thanks scuttle and midori for setting me straight. I think I will continue as I have been then with self training and puppy classes and see where that takes me. The hunt I ride with are stag hunting and there are almost as many followers on foot as on horseback which may explain the huge numbers of dogs. But while I do take my friend's collies out riding with me I agree hunting would be an altogether different prospect.