DH wants to leave the dog in the garden during the day, is this right?

[WinlessChunder]

My DH wants to get a dog. I don't think we should as he works full-time and I work part-time and am busy with 2 DCs. I told him I believed he would exercise it properly but I was concerned about it being alone in the house while we were both at work/out. He replied 'but I would lock it outside in the (fairly small) garden with a doghouse to go in if it was raining'. I was - do people do this?

The only experience I have was of my own childhood when we had 3 dogs. My dad worked from home in a workshop at the end of our garden so they were just allowed to go in and out as they pleased.

DH is Australian and he says that us Brits pander to our animals too much and keeping pets outside is the done thing in Aus.

What is the done thing in the UK?

It's not right IMO, no. Dogs need company, either from other dogs or humans and shouldn't be left alone for long periods of time. There is also a very big risk that a dog can be stolen from your garden and used for breeding, fighting (or training fighting dogs) or worse.

Depending on how part time you work, a dog may be an option for you, as once they are used to it it is fine to leave an adult dog for 3-4 hours on a fairly regular basis, but that obviously depends on the dog and how much time you can commit to it when you are there. The dog would need to be kept inside for that time though.

I think in your circumstances a puppy would be out of the question, but an older rescue dog could be perfect. A good rescue will assess your situation and let you know if they think you're a suitable home and also find the right dog for you.

My neighbours do this and the bloody things bark all day long - so I'd say no :)

please don't do that ! someone whose garden backed onto ours used to and the poor thing barked all the time and it was obvioulsy distressed and lonely.

only get a dog if you want to lvoe it and treat it as part of the family and bear in mind it could live 15 + years so it's a big commitment

I do agree that Bits pander to their animals too much. Having said that, I wouldn't leave a dog outside in the garden with a doghouse. That on its own says, for me, that he doesn't have the time or the inclination to give a dog the care it requires.

Now, remind him that you are in Britain, if you leave that dog in the garden all the time, you will end up getting someone complaining to the RSPCA, Environmental Agency, etc every so often. (they can become a nuisance to neighbours if they are out and barking unattended regularly)

No, that's not right at all.

It's distressing for the dog and annoying for the neighbours.

I don't work but go in and out for maybe a couple of hours here or there and our dog is very often barking when I get home (from inside our detached house so not bothering anyone else!) she would HATE to be left in the garden all day.

Why does he want a dog then? Don't you get one for company etc? If you don't want a dog, then don't get one! Both parties have to be up for it, as lulu says, it's a big commitment!

The climate in Australia is considerably warmer than it is here. Just think for a moment about the winter we've just been through, and the winter last year - and you still think you want to keep a dog outside? I am beyond words.

Thankfully, no reputable rescue will rehome to a family that wishes to do this - if I was doing the homecheck and got even a sniff of this as an idea I would immediately start alarm bells ringing. Not being Australian, I've no idea how they generally treat their animals but I can say that being British, the whole point of a dog as a companion animal (as opposed to a working dog) is just that - a companion, usually kept in the house, so you can interact with it, and it has the benefit of warmth, shelter and protection.

Even working dogs such as police dogs, gundogs etc that are not kept in homes have the benefit of properly constructed kennels that ensure the dog's safety and wellbeing, including warmth in the winter and cool in the summer, along with protection from wind, rain and so on. This is not the same as some ramshackle "doghouse".

One of the things I say repeatedly on threads about dog ownership is that all the adults in a house must be signed up to the commitment, financially, timewise and so on - you are looking at another fifteen years. Reading your post, you don't sound very keen, and to be frank, neither does your husband - I genuinely hope that you both decide that having a dog is not for you.

Another thing, in Australia, I understand gardens are much bigger - your DH's proposal will be deeply unfair on your neighbours, and as others have pointed out, will lead to the Council being called along with possibly the local Dog Warden, RSPCA and so on. Do you really want a bevy of officials descending on you? Remember that neighbour disputes (such as over noise) HAVE to be disclosed if you decide to move - this issue could make selling your house more difficult, and sour yr relations with neighbours.

I am one of the few on here, I suspect, that doesn't have a huge problem with dogs being kept outside for certain periods of time - but, and it's a big but, that would only apply to working dogs who are receiving lots of stimulation and training at all other times. Unless it's a spaniel/lab/HPR type in shooting season, a farm collie or a sled dog then it would be a big no.

The other caveat would be a secure kennel block or purpose built runs with other dogs for company, never loose in the garden and never alone. You wouldn't believe how many dogs can clear a 6ft panel fence or dig under it in a matter of minutes, never mind the risk of theft.

Our Australian neighbours did this. The dog was always jumping the fence and wandering around on the roads. They tried to stop her but then she learned how to open the latch.

They had no time for her and a year after getting her, they gave her back to the rescue. With the two puppies she had given birth to and they hadn't been able to find homes for. The rescue people were not impressed. [understatement] and the neighbours have lost friends over the way they treated the poor dog.

It may be ok in Australia but it is not common in UK (or Switzerland where we are) and it likely to cause problems if the dog barks, or tries to escape from the garden. What would you do in winter?

Heph - in those circumstances, I'd agree, that can work very well, but that unfortunately is not what the OP is proposing. And even for working gundogs, lots of the shooters I know bring their retired dogs into the warm house when they are elderly - can you imagine keeping a 15 year old pet in an outside run, on cold concrete?

Of course you're right about working dogs hephaestus, but it's not right to get a family pet to keep outside, what would be the point?

in most other countries dos are left outside in kennels and dont come in the house at all? i visited poland and dos were outside in kennals when it was snowin, but they were still loved, played with, taken for walks etc...

i know a family who keep their do in a kennel, brick built with roof and butchers plastic on the door, in their small back arrden, they take him for walks before and after work to the local park every day, and he is well cared for, this is in uk.
in v cold weather they let him in. he is a erman shepherd, the rspca have been round when there was buildin work oin on to check the do as there was wood and stuff in back arden for short time, they said the situation was fine as lon as wood and stuff was cleared.

also in south africa where it does et cold and snow in winter dogs are uard dogs and therefore left outside all the time. and they are still loved and cared for and playful.

If you would like a small dog, you could buy a large cat flap which the dog would be able to use.

I agree which is why there are lots of 'buts'. It's just that there's usually a blanket horrified reaction on here to the idea of dogs being outside, thought I'd present the alternative view.

I can hardly get my dogs in the house in the winter, they dig holes in the snow to sleep in and roll their eyes and huff and puff if I bring them in and dare to put the fire on.

But yeah, for a purely pet dog, which is what the OP is proposing - no, it wouldn't work.

Good god, no. Please listen to ScuttleButter.

There is an additional problem, apart from the cruelty and neighbour issues... theft. Dog theft is rife and theft of dogs from gardens far from infrequent. Just take a look at the DogLost website and see what I mean.

ScuttleButter and I are both involved in rescue in various ways. I'm sure she, like me, has countless horror stories of stolen dogs.

And I would argue with the poster above who says that the RSPCA have okayed a dog being outside.... not that they haven't done so but that they are not the organisation that I would trust in this. None of the decent rescues I know would home a normal, family pet dog into an outside environment. I personally don't advocate it at all nor would I rehome any dog to a someone who intended to keep him outside.

even if they have a secure, purpose built kennel/shed t o shelter in?

But it would still be alone all day nailak with no company. Regardless of what is acceptable in other countries, it just doesn't seem right to me.

nailak, dogs need company to thrive, it's simply not right to make them spend most of their time alone.

I live in the country and lots of people here have live-out dogs - (mainly labs).

They are perfectly fine and very happy, healthy family dogs but they have lived out from being a puppy and have very good kennels - not just a 'dog house'.

The kenneling is usually in a large yard or farm yard so that they can see the comings and goings.

If the plan is for the dog to be an outside dog it needs to be used to be living out from a pup, to be a hardy breed (such as a gundog) and have proper, purpose built, secure, comfortable kenneling which includes a secure run.

nailak, as others have said, it isn't just about accomodation and warmth... it's about company and interaction. FFS, how often do you hear people say that they disagree with my mindset of a no-kill policy and that a dog is "better off dead" than in a rescue kennel for the rest of his life... and that's despite the fact that a half-decent rescue will ensure that that dog is not just given food and shelter but he is walked, interacted with and played with daily? And yet it's okay for a pet owner to have a dog outside all day and/or night or for rescue to home to such an environment? Makes no sense to me.

(Sorry, the FFS wasn't having a go at you, it was at all those who say that such a dog would be better off put to sleep. I've just got home from spending the past 5 days at the rescue I help out at, dealing with their dogs, some of whom are not on the rehoming list but are there for life in sanctuary. I know how much we volunteers and the rescue owners love and care for those dogs, how hard we work to not just make them comfortable but to go the extra mile for them. These are dogs we love as we love our own, why would we want to advise that others treat their dogs in a way that we wouldn't treat our own pets?).

If you really want a dog but cannot be in during the day then why not comsider a dog walker or someone else who can take your dog so it has company during the day?

My cocker goes to doggy daycare from 7.45am to 5pm and loves it.

That said, you have to consider whether you will be able to prioritise your dogs needs. I work during the day and have no-one else at home to look after the dog, but I always make sure if I have to go out that I leave him on his own as little as possible, for instance if I go out in the evening he either comes with me or stays with my neighbour, and at weekends I try to organise my activities so that my dog's needs are also taken into consideration.

Like others have said, its a big responsibility...

Your DH, like Scuttlebutter and Val say, has completely the wrong idea WRT having a dog. I'm not going to say that no dog should live outside, but certainly a companion dog is just that, it should be living in the house as part of the family. Quite apart outside your dog is at risk from dognapping, loneliness, boredom, no company, etc.

I have a slightly different take on it, in that we have 2 working farm dogs who live outside 8 months of the year and I actually have no problem with certain working dogs living outside . BUT and this is a HUGE BUT mine live in a properly constructed, heated, kennel (think small garden shed) with proper dog beds and double duvets and blankets decent bedding, with a secure, lockable run and they are full working sheep & cattle dogs who start work at 6am with my DH (who is a farmer) and are on the go with DH outside all day.

They then get shut in their kennel at about 9pm after getting fed in the kitchen, when they are only too glad to collapse in a heap. The reason they live outside is because they are covered in cow muck and mud most of the time. In the winter, they live in the kitchen because DH & I damn well wouldn't want to be living outside in the winter, and so don't see why they should.

Our retired working dog lives in the house and is part of our family all year round. She is spoilt (but worth it). Our working gun dog puppy, when he arrives, will spend his first 6 months in the house and will be gradually introduced to the run with the other 2 dogs. But again, he will be a working dog.

It sounds to me, like your DH likes the idea of a "part-time" dog, in that when he doesn't want anything to do with it he can shut it outside. He needs to think long and hard about it.

My DH is Aussie too...have you asked yours what the dog would do in the winter?? IN Oz they DO leave them outside with some shade a lot....they're not as dog-loving as us ime.

But it wouldn't work in the UK

Quiet, your dogs sound great, and as though they have an excellent life .

OP, have you had any further thoughts?

tbf in the home i was talkin about the mum doesnt work, the dad works nihts, there are 2 rown up sons and a rown up dauhter who work part time and an 8 yr old dd who is at school, so there is always someone around to ive the do company, it is not like a 2 person family who work 9-5 and durin those hours noone is there with the do, this would be the same if the do
was inside or outside thouh? it still wouldnt have company?

there are also various extended family/ loders etc at different times in differnt quantities.

my dd4 wants a small do, a baby do she said, i said no as the baby do would row up... and i dnt think i can look after it and 3 dcs and 2 cats