***lizcat*** advice needed about hormone surpressent for un-neutered dogs.

[kid]

I just read that you are a vet and I need some advice.

I refuse to get my 11month old springer neutered but I would consider him getting the injection to surpress the hormones. Do you know anything about them?

My main questions are: how much do they cost (I'm in London), how frequent are they required and is there any risk involved?

I did email my vet last week and they have not responded at all which disappoints me.

If anyone else has any information, please do come and share.

TIA

AFAIK they have to have them quite regularly as they don't last long.
Is there any particular reason you think he needs the hormones, is he humping everything or running off? (to hump everything!)

(FWIW I have an unneutered springer. I have not neutered him because I don't see the need. I know about the risks of testicular cancer and him running off to impregnate all the females in a 30 mile radius but he is nearly 3 and so far has shown no interest in running off to impregnate or otherwise!)

I would ask the same as fruitshoots, why do you want the injections? Most dogs operate just fine with nads intact.

No reason to need the injections just the dig trainer asked if I'd get him neutered and I said never. So she suggested the injections as there is a chance his recall will never be 100%

I know plenty of people with entire dogs that can call them back from a bitch in heat when they know she is there to be mated. Neutering is not a training aid and I'd be dubious of any trainer who suggested it. Recall is a training problem.

I looked into Tardak (injection) as I plan to neuter my male dog, but want to make sure it won't adversely affect him as he can be fear aggressive. My vet felt it has a slight sedative effect and so may not give a true picture of what effect neutering would have on him, so I decided against it and we're neutering next month anyway. There is however, an implant male dogs can have instead of Tardak, which is longer lasting. My only reason for neutering him is that we have three entire bitches in the house and I don't feel it's fair to keep an entire male around them, otherwise, I wouldn't neuter a male dog personally.

He has met 2 dogs in season, one was a rotti which he ignored, the other was a lab which he showed a huge interest in.

His recall isn't bad but I am not confident he would come back if another dog took his fancy. I took him for a long off lead walk with an experienced dog walker and 2 of her dogs and he was great. I felt confident though as he was on a 50 ft training line
I need to trust him more but I have a fear of losing him. I do feel it is linked to losing moby which was of course in completely different circumstances. But my fear of losing him and going through all that pain again is not something I feel I could cope with.

Sorry on call so not been near the computer for a while.
IMHO would say that having a dog neutered whether surgically or medically to improve recall is grasping at straws. The only way to improve recall is to work at it all the time - my dog is neutered and spend at least 15minutes every day working on recall and he is nowhere near perfect.

To directly answer your question there are two products on the the market an injection Tardak an injection that lasts around 3 weeks this is fairly highly priced and is dependant on body weight. The second products name has temporaily escaped my mind it is a Desloriline based implant from virbac that lasts 6 months and honestly I have no idea on price as I yet to have need to use it - though I imagine it will be quite expensive.
Whilst these products will help him to be less interested in on heat dogs it will not help with the pheasant/deer fueled adrenaline rush bugger off. There is no 100% guarantee against this apart from keeping them on the lead all the time.
I would suggest considering some competitive obedience or agility training that would help to build your confidence in each other. I seem to remember though could be wrong that your dog is a springer and they love agility, it is fun for you plus you will be build your control in quite and adrenaline fueled situation.
A sad fact of pet ownership is that we will all probably out live our pets and whenever we loss them it is devastating (I am facing the decline as my old lady cat) what we have to do is take pleasure in the time we have with them.

The implant is called Suprelorin. I used it on my 2.5 year BC in September last year. It is certainly an effective product, however you should be aware that the implant and thing used to administer it are huge! And that after it has been inserted, any sexual behaviour such as humping may get much, much worse before it gets better.
I believe it works (in simple terms) by stimulating so much testosterone that eventually the body ignores it. But the behaviours did get better for my dog.
This hyper-sexual behaviour is not listed as absurd effect so I really panicked, and when I asked around other people who had used it several of them had found the same. I reported this to the vet so that they can tell the manufacturer.
I'm also in London, I'll look up how much it cost me later this evening for you. It took a couple of months to become effective, and is supposed to last 6 months.

Stupid phone made a freudian slip - adverse effect not absurd!

Thank you MarisCrane for plugging my leaky brain hole.

Thanks for everyones replies. It would seem that the injection wouldn't work for what I want it to do (guarantee recall!)

He is a good dog but IMO, he is ignorant lol
He does come back, when he wants to. He is always within sight but a bit too far away for my liking.

Yes he is a springer lizcat a show type which are much calmer, bigger and hairier!

I would say Bollocks to your trainer Kid (and not excuse the pun!) Dogs with 100% recall are dogs that are trained rather than dogs that have been neutered, as you said yourself your boy was not too bothered when he saw a bitch in heat. If he sees a really hot bitch you may have to be very very interesting but you can and will recall him.

To be honest with a gundog a pheasant is likely to be harder to recall from!

Beaten into second place today at agility by a spaniel - so I second what Lizcat says re agility!

Kid it was interesting what you said about feeling confident when he was on a long line and hence his recall was better. We do have to learn to trust our dogs and they can usually surprise us. Teddy would be much more stressed than you if he lost you so he will not be deliberately setting out to run off. What you can do and I do a lot with my pheasant chasing lab is hide. The minute he goes into chase mode - I disappear - he now knows that when he chases I am no longer there - he now will start to wind up his legs for a chase then instantly looks back to see where I am.

It is a challenge with gundogs but a good recall can be taught with patience consistent positive reward handling (and a bit of confidence from the owner).

I can't remember if he likes toys but if he does recall is much easier - a game with a toy lasts longer than a treat so is of higher value to toy orientated dogs.

I meant to say as well keep at it - he is still a baby

I have invested in a few toys that are just for playing in the park with. He has started to show more of an interest in toys, especially the squeaky ones.
I have tried hiding from him and it does make him panic and look for me. I am certain I am the one that needs training with recall not teddy.

My new worry with him is his rotten breath. He also feels the need to lick everything leaving his nasty smelly breath behind on clothes, floor, settee, skin etc. I'm not sure if I need to take him vets or if it's normal. I have cut out wet food, I'm brushing his teeth daily and giving him a denture chew once a day. At what point should I take him vets? Please keep in mind that i'd prefer to avoid any vets like the plague after my experience with moby

Beaten into second place today at agility by a spaniel

was that in the 'spaniels only agility class'?

my spaniel only wins the 'greatest amount of jumps demolished or broken' round

Kid, good quality food (raw or BARF is best for teeth, IMO) and/or a ncie raw bone to chew on is far better for their teeth and breath than any supposed 'dental chew' or brushing teeth, so I'd say save your money and get a bone for free from the butcher.

You can however, get some breath freshening/antispetic spray from the vets. I use it occasionally, but my dogs hate it and run into the corner looking all sorry for themselves when I get it out. Bones are much easier...

I will try and get hold if a bone. I have resorted to adding 2 tsp of lemon juice to his water tonight. I do think I need to take him vets sooner rather than later as this smell is not normal. It is definitely coming from his Tongue rather than his teeth. He is also licking a lot more than usual.