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Got a letter from council re DDA

10 replies

SocialButterfly · 26/04/2011 20:56

A week or so ago DH opened the front door to go to the garage and our dog ( male collie x lab) ran out and attacked a passing westie.

There was no blood and the dog just seemed a bit shocked, dh apologised and told them woman to let us know if her dog needed treatment etc and we would pay.

We have now got a letter from the council stating we had a dog out of control in a public place and he could be pts under the DDA and we could be fined and go to prison. Now realisticly I know that we wont go to prison! but I am now nervous of walking him incase something else happens.

He is a rescue and very fear agressive to other dogs. We muzzle him and try to avoid walking where other dogs are. Is there anything else I can do, should I phone the council and explain he wasnt running the streets unattended and it was a mistake on dh's part?

OP posts:
truthisinthewine · 26/04/2011 21:05

I'm not sure it matters why he was out of the house just that he was and he attacked another dog presumably unprevoked. I would guess that phoning the council to say that would be completely pointless.

sb6699 · 26/04/2011 21:13

I understand that it was a mistake but your dog attacked another dog unprovoked and the owner was probably quite startled by the experience which is why they have reported it.

As long as you are being responsible and trying to sort out the problem, I dont think there is much else you can do.

Have you been to a behaviourist?

kid · 26/04/2011 21:34

Does the letter say what course of action they are going to take or is a case of if it happens again?
It must be worrying for you to receive a letter with the threat/risk of having your dog pts.

My little yorkie was attacked by another dog and it terrified me. It literally took me 10 years to overcome that fear and its only now that I am able to walk my dog alone. Before, I would walk off and leave DH with the dog if I saw another dog. I can imagine the westie's owner was shaken up the same way. Glad to here the dog wasn't hurt, unlike my dog that needed months of surgery Sad

Scuttlebutter · 26/04/2011 23:14

Firstly, get yourself on to the DogLaw website and speak to Trevor there asap - he specialises in dog legislation and can advise you exactly on how to proceed. For ALL Dog owners, I strongly recommend investing in one of his courses on "Dog Law - What Every Responsible Owner needs to Know". And no, I don't work for him, or have any connection with him, other than having been on one of his courses. They are held all over the country, and are usually hosted by various dog charities - the one I went to was hosted by Dogs Trust.

As others have asked, what exactly are the Council proposing as the next steps?

Also, and I'm sure your DH won't need reminding, make sure you have a secure front garden if at all possible, and even consider having a porch built if possible - I'd be looking at ways of ensuring that the dog couldn't get out again, particularly if you can't trust members of the household to be eternally vigilant. I sympathise - we operate an "airlock" system between our rooms and the front door, to maximise security, as next door has a cat that likes sitting on our shared drive (high risk activity with three sighthounds).

Vallhala · 26/04/2011 23:27

My own thoughts are that you should be seen to act responsibly - that for your sake, your dog's and the sake of other dogs you should consult a behaviouralist asap and that you should probably (but read on, I am NOT a lawyer and professional advice is essential) respond to the council and tell them of the steps you are taking. If you are advised to do so I would imagine that you might be told to mention that your husband accidentally let the dog slip by him and muzzling your dog when in public and that as a result of the incident you're seeing X behaviouralist as of Y date. You would not certainly be wise to admit to anything such as that your dog can be dog-aggressive as that could be used against you.

This is because the DDA defines a dog as dangerously out of control when there is "?Any occasion on which there are grounds for reasonable apprehension it will injure any person". Your argument is reasonable - that this does not apply to your dog. However the DDA is such a cods of a law and authorities are so twitchy that they could argue that the Westies owner did indeed have reasonable apprehension that your dog would injure them. Potentially this is a serious matter. These are the penalties for a Section 3 breach of the DDA, which covers dogs which are not under the breed specific list such as Pit Bulls, Japanese Tosas and the like.

"Dangerously out of control without causing injury to a person:
A fine of up to £5000.
A prison term not exceeding 6 months.
An order to do any of the following:
Muzzle the dog at all times in a public place.
Keep the dog on lead at all times in a public place.
Neuter the dog if not already done so.
A Destruction Order placed on the dog.
Disqualification of owning an animal for such period as the court deem fit.

Realistically a one-off, dog on dog attack of the kind described is UNLIKELY to result in you having more than a slap on the wrist or at worst being ordered to comply with certain requirements such as muzzling pooch in public but it's wise not to be complacent. A public place includes private property where your dog has no right to be, such as on your neighbour's drive or in their garden.

I would suggest that you contact DDA WATCH before you do anything else and obtain their advice. I'd also strongly recommend that you seek the help of a behaviouralist immediately and also the advice and support of the rescue you adopted from. If you need any help or advice in dealing with the rescue please pm me with their name - I may know them/of them (I'm not promising) but if I do or I know anyone amongst trusted rescue contacts who does I'll willingly do all I can to help with finding the right person to contact, giving you a heads-up about the way they operate and what to ask and expect etc.

WRT a behaviouralist, find a registered one via personal recommendation. Your vet should be able to help, as should the rescue.

From a personal point of view as one who is a campaigner against DDA i would appreciate knowing what council you're under as it helps us to know the approach that each council takes and to monitor their actions and procedures (I'm not from DDA WATCH, btw, but am a supporter of the campaign and a rescuer and rescue volunteer with a pro-dog/political bent). As such I come across others in your position (and worse) and know that councils can get it wrong, can be over-zealous and can bend the rules so knowledge is useful. If you're willing to pm me in confidence and let me which is your local council we animal welfare campaigners can keep an eye on councils and will be better equipped to help other dog owners in the future. No offence taken if you'd rather not of course and if you do contact me it will be in total confidence and of course I will give you some known rescues who will be able to vouch for me before you tell me anything.

HTH,

Val

Vallhala · 26/04/2011 23:29

Ah, X posted! Thart ScuttleButter always has better suggestions than me... whilst I'd still say speak to DDA Watch, DogLaw are an even better idea.

And yes, what DO the council say they plan to do?

minimu1 · 27/04/2011 08:35

A dog on dog attack is very very very unlikely to be prosecuted. Having been to court as an expert witness with many of my clients dog on dog aggression is not considered an offence.

However the owner of the westie could take you to court as a private case and claim compensation for the incident.

I would do exactly as Val says - contact the dog warden and ask for him to visit you - let him meet the dog (if said dog is calm around people) find a good behaviourist and tell him of the steps you are taking to make sure this does not happen again. Obviously look at ways of preventing the dog running out - eg dog gates inside.

It does depend on the dog warden but they can offer suggestions of always muzzling the dog when you go out or in one case of an aggressive dog to humans they advised to keep it in the garden (I am saying nothing but the dog was not recommended to be put to sleep!)

A nervous aggressive dog is hard work BUT they can be turned around with hard work and commitment and that will make you life so much easier and happier.

Ironically a dog warden with a dog aggressive GSD was a client of mine and he was a super warden as he had a real understanding of dog issues and helped many local dog owners with sensible and compassionate advice - not sure how common this is though.

ellangirl · 27/04/2011 09:39

My mum's mini Daschund was attacked by a dogue de bordeaux who ran up in a public place (dog was at mum's feet walking) picked her up and shook her, breaking her jaw and a few ribs. The owner laughed and walked away. Nothing happened to him, or his dog, despite mum's efforts to prosecute. I just wanted to say that there is a world of difference in my eyes between your dog's fear aggression and my mum's sorry little dog being set upon! If mum's case didn't result in a prosecution, it would be insane if yours did! I wish you all the best in resolving the situation successfully.

SocialButterfly · 27/04/2011 19:56

Thanks for all your help. I have spken to the council and they have told me that as it is an unsubstatiated report they will just be issuing a warning but obviously if he does it again and it is reported they will take further action.

I keep him on a lead at all times and muzzle him but I just feel he is a bit miserable about the whole thing Sad

I appreiate the westie owner was probably shaken up about it, I just feel it was a bit over the top as it was obvious it was a mistake on my Dh's part rather than we had let him roam the streets looking for dogs to attack.

OP posts:
SocialButterfly · 27/04/2011 19:57

oh Val the council is Rother District Council

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