aggression? desperatly need advice

[ditavonteesed]

Cherry had another run in today, she was running around and playing with another broder terrier for at least 15 mins nicely, then it was time to go so I out her on lead and it was so quick that i couldnt see who started it but the 2 dogs were really going for each other and it was a real job to seperate them. afterwards we stood for a couple of minutes chatting to the other owner (we were both a bit shook up), the dogs were fine again and licking each other and being lovely again. he said his dog was 3 and had never done that before, so it must have been something cherry did (My conclusion not what he said he was being lovely about it). Earlier on the walk she had gone near a yorkshire terrier and it growled so I was readyt for it but she just walked past.
The problem is the more it happens the more nervous I am getting whenever another dog approachs which is presumably making it worse.
It seems very random and I have no idea when it will happen, what causes it and more importantly what to do to stop it.

Cherry has been properly socialised and been to training classes for the last year, we are doing bronze and silver test on monday.

Please any help and advise welcome.

oh and I dont know if it's relevant but it is usually towards the end of walks.

Itr has happened 6 times now, also there was a border terrier at obediance last week and she was lunging on the lead while working to try and get to it, obviously I didnt allow her but she is supposed to be working off lead today, definatly not confident to do that.
also there is a border puppy at the other training class and she is always barking at it.

arent they supposed to like their own breed?

Well she is giving you enough warnings so you have to take action quickly. If she has gone for 6 dogs you can guarantee that she will do it again. Speak to your dog trainer urgently. Your trainer will have seen her body language in class and may be able to help.

Do not ignore this - it will not go away but will increase unless the correct training is taken. If your trainer is no help - where abouts are you and I can put you in touch with a good behaviourist.

thanks munimu, I am in sheffield, am going to go to training early tonight to talk to trainer before I comne back to get her. I have spoken to the trainers at the other class before but they have watched her and she is usually very submissive.

I know how imprtant it is to sort this now, she is 14 months old and the general comments I get are well she is a teenager, well she is a terrier, I dont believe these are the reason.

No you are right to not believe the reasons given - it could easily be fear aggression eg if she jumps in first then the scary dog goes away but that can be impossible to tell by posts. See if your trainer could go for a walk with you and Cherry and see her out and about - good luck with it.

Has Cherry been attacked by another dog at any point? You mention that Cherry got into a fight once she was on a lead. Dogs on leads can be very defensive. I also wonder how you are reacting. Sometimes we, as owners can jump in to protect our animals, but this can increase the dog's fear and they then can justify their aggression. I expect you will find lots of support and help at your training club.

One of our dogs used to lunge at dogs on leads. We learned to distract him with games and sweets. It took a while, but these days, games and sweets are more rewarding to him than dogs on leads.

When you see another dog approaching, it may help you to play a game with Cherry, or do something to take attention away from the other dog. If you seem afraid, she will sense that, and she will learn that fear is an appropriate reaction. This is not what you want!

It is very difficult with lots of dogs on narrow paths. If dogs want to sniff each other and say hello, it is

...oops.... hard to get away so the dogs don't get protective of their owners. I'm sure you will find training helpful too. Most dog training is about owner training and observation. Our dog Toby signals before he bolts. I am beginning to think that a spray collar might help.

I second what silent said about the dog picking up on your fear. You have to act quickly and get some advice so that you can relax! When another dog approaches mine I sit her down, and try to get her attention on me- treats, a toy, whatever works. Keeping a loose lead is essential.
If you can get to know people at your training club, it would be great for Cherry to meet up with other known friendly dogs for walks sometimes- the more positive experiences she has with other dogs the better. Good luck!

Not much advice but sympathy from another BT owner! Ours in now 8 and she is pretty unreliable around dogs she does not know. She was a well socialised pup - we had another dog too at the time and also went to training classes etc but it all started to go wrong around 2yrs old when she was being looked after by a friend while we were on holiday (first time we had left her with anybody) and she got into a fight in a local park. She was off the lead and the friend did not see precisely how it started so we will never really know :-( My friend thinks the other owners kicked our dog which I can understand I guess but unfortunately I think that was the trigger. Since then we have had a few run ins and she mostly stays on a lead unless we are sure of the environment. The worst case scenario is other dogs off the lead running at her or coming up behind her, the aggression is definitely fear based from what I can see of her body language.
She is good if other dogs ignore her but of course this is not normal dog behaviour!
It is much worse with me than with my DH - in fact she is almost fine with DH but I just cannot stop the tensing up when I see other boisterous dogs around so have only served to reinforce her fear I am sure ( I need hypnosis I think!) She is also fine with our dog sitter who is ex police dog handler so v alpha male - in fact when with him she is a diff dog! Lives with up to 6 other dogs when with him and is one of "best behaved" dogs he says - walks off lead etc. The only time she has ever shown any aggression with him is when I turned up to collect her and another one of his dogs greeted me - so really just goes to show you it can be all about how you are and act/react.
Having said that I do still know her mother and brother and they are worse than her by far plus I have met more than my fair share of BT owners out and about and commiserated over how great they are with people but not with other dogs, particularly bitches IME.
I feel very guilty that I have not managed to conquer her behaviour issues and anxiety but she has a good life as luckily we have 11 acres of fields to exercise her on and plenty of quiet walks. I just miss being able to trust her.
Sorry for such a ramble really just wanted to say you are not alone but also try to be strong and not get the fear like me and you and she will be OK I am sure.

thanks, just got back, she has lots of walks with dogs she is friendly with. she was perfectly behaved tonight, did not even prick her ears at any other dogs, sat nicely inbetween classes and worked perfectly not even noticing the dogs outside the mats.
she is definatly picking up my fear, she did get bitten about a month ago, I saw another dog was on a lead and put her on a lead, we walked past a bit too close and the other dog lunged at her and caught her.

the trainer suggested lots of distraction, lots of praise when she gets it right and possibly getting basket muzzle for the time being until I am confident so that I am not passing my fear onto her.
only problem I can see with a muzzle is I use a lot of treats and games to keep on top of her recall, would I still be able to treat her?
I wondered what your opinions about a muzzle are, obviously I need to think of other dogs and I cant risk her hurting another dog and I can see that it would give me more confidence. what are he reasons against?
The trainer seemed confident that it is something we can train her out of as she is naturally a submissive dog.

She suggested if we dont get on top of it very quickly that it would definatly be worth getting a behaviourist in on a one to one basis.

I cant believe how calm and well behaved she was tonight, I wonder if she might have ended up hurt a little today, she was bleeding but I couldnt see where from, think she might have bitten her tongue. she was very frightened after it happened today and was cowering with her tail down for quite a while.
so pleased with her tonight, I was going to say i wouldnt do any off lead work but she was so good that we were able to do stay and recall off lead with no problems at all, they way she was last week i wouldnt have dared to takre her lead off. The border terrier she was trying to get at last week was there and she looked at it once then completly ignored it.

Glad the class went well. There are much more qualified mners for advice but well done and keep at it, for your confidence and hers too.
We have a basket muzzle and ours hates wearing it and spends the whole walk trying to paw it off, but I do carry it sometimes so I know I can slip it on if I feel it is necessary.
They really are such gorgeous dogs, full of love and really intelligent too.
Good luck

Good I am glad you have got advice.

I would make sure that all her associations with dogs over the next few weeks are positive. SO if she is alright with class member see if you can walk with them. Avoid all dogs that she does not know or you do not know so she can get her confidence back.

It is your absolute priority to keep other dogs safe and you do not want her to attack any dogs at all. However there are conflicting views about muzzles and they do need to be introduced carefully. If not they can be a trigger for the dog to become stressed as when the muzzle is put on bad things happen.

So get a muzzle put it by her click and treat when she looks at it. Click and treat when she sniffs it put it by her food bowl when she eats and gradually get her used to having it about. When you get around to putting it on her hold a treat through the muzzle so she gets the treat when the muzzle is put on for a split second and build up from there.

If I ever have to muzzle clients dogs I always teach the dogs to push a large football with the muzzle so they see the primary reason for wearing the muzzle is to have a game. This can take time but it worth it and also a great distraction trick if another dog is coming by

behaviourist coming tommorow, spoke to her for ages and she sounds great, has discussed possibly using dap collar. she has actually made me feel a lot better about things