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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Any advise, considering breeding my dog

26 replies

GelflinGirl · 28/03/2011 13:38

Hello

I'm considering breeding my chihuahua cross jack russell with another chihuahua............. any advise from breeders (or anyone that has experience) would be gratefully recieved Smile

OP posts:
ihavenewsockson · 28/03/2011 13:48

I'm sure Valhalla will be along soon to give you advice and point you in the right direction.

WhereTheWildThingsWere · 28/03/2011 13:50

My only advice would be to please, please, please don't.

There are far too many dogs in the world that are in need of homes, far to many dogs waiting to be and being destroyed every day.

It is a massive time and financial commitment, for instance any treatment your bitch may need during pregnancy and whelping will not be covered by your insurance (presuming you have some) cesareans and the like can run into thousands.

Can I ask why on earth you are even considering it?

Lizcat · 28/03/2011 13:55

It is a huge time commitment breeding a bitch. The puppies are going to make a huge mess in your house. Do you think you will be able to find homes for puppies easily?

GelflinGirl · 28/03/2011 14:00

I'm prepared to be put off, when i asked for advise i do mean the good and the bad.

Considering it for the same reasons most people do i assume, because she is beautiful and i already know a few people that have said if i do breed her they will have a puppy (they are all people i trust and know well), Would be an amazing experience for us and the DCs and tbh the money would be a bonus too.

At the moment im only considering it, ive posted this thread as i have absolutly no idea whats involved etc so was looking for the pro's and con's.

Thanks so far for the advise Smile

OP posts:
WhereTheWildThingsWere · 28/03/2011 14:12

Please don't do it for the money, there is no money in raising a litter correctly.

My last puppy was from a good breeder, the bitch had 10 puppies, the breeder kept one, all the rest were sold for £450 each, she ended up with just under £200 profit.

I would certainly budget on it costing you at least a few thousand.

What if your bitch dies and you have to hand rear all the puppies?

What if all the puppies are stillborn?

Neither of the above will be a very positive experience for your children.

Every single pup you breed you should be responsible for for the rest of its life, that means taking it back at any time and for any reason if the new owner cannot keep it, this is the only way to ensure they cannot fall into the wrong hands.

I could go on and please let yourself be put off, it is never a good idea, unless you are very experienced in the breed, the dogs are of extremely good quality and you are very prepared.

WhereTheWildThingsWere · 28/03/2011 14:14

There are no pros to backyard breeding a litter of mongrels btw, sorry.

herladyship · 28/03/2011 14:23

Agree with what others have said I'm afraid.. Don't do it!

daisydotandgertie · 28/03/2011 14:32

Read this.

It's lifted from a labrador forum on the web. The author is a well respected, experienced breeder and trainer and it reflects her experiences;

I don't want to be angel of doom, but I have some seriously bad experiences under my belt basically because I've stood my own and other peoples dogs at stud for quite a number of years. Because of that you get to see and hear about many more problems than if you just breed your own litters now and then. Believe me breeding is in NO WAY all puppy cuddles and fairytale endings. These are all Labradors:

Just last year xxx had a litter of 9 born to a nice couple in Southend on Sea. Easy mating, easy pregnancy, false sense of security. At the (easy) birth they lost two. Just could not get them going however hard they worked. Then over the next FOURTEEN days (so long enough to get seriously attached) they lost all but one bitch puppy who survived and was perfectly fine. The cause is unknown, some pups would drift off losing their suck reflex and then despite tube feeding every two hours, slip away. Other pups just dropped dead where they 'stood' with no warning at all. These people did not sleep, did not eat and cried buckets for 14 days of hell. The bitch was never in danger as there was obviously a mystery virus but to work so hard for each puppy for it to slip away one by one was devestating. The post mortem on the last two showed a unusual virus which basically affected the heart. However mum was healthy, dad was healthy and it could not have been predicted. This is not the first time I have heard of this problem in random lines so you cannot know where it will strike. Their vets bill is around £2500 at the moment.

----

On the other hand we had one bitch a few years ago, again a stud litter, who about ten days before whelping gave up eating. Nothing would start her again. Her temperature remained normal. It was like the hormonal surges made her completely anorexic. She had no strength by her due date to whelp and had a C section for the 7 pups. She could not raise them so the breeders had to by hand up day and night, no way of going to work for either. They lost the bitch on day 7. They lost 3 of the 7 pups. The lady had only lost her son in a motorbike accident a few months before and it nearly saw her off.

-----

We had a nice bitch come for mating last year. Lovely lady, really nice, had good matings, only 48 hours apart. Bitch was scanned in whelp. Then I got a call about 10 days before her due date to ask if from some signs they told me about I thought she was in labour? I said she couldn't be but go down the vets incase. They did and the vet tried to halt the first stage labour - couldn't, she went home and whelped each puppy normally, but as each drew breath they fought for air and died within minutes in a very distressing manner fighting for breath as they were too premature and their lungs were not developed. They lost them all. They bitch was in a terrible terrible state, heavy with milk and went through a lot of pain physcially because of that. Because the hope was always that one might make it, the vet had to allow her to whelp naturally hence starting the natural process of milk production....

------

We had a lady two years back have a litter of four. She desperately wanted to keep a dog puppy and there was only one but he was big and strong. day 3 she laid on one of the bitches and it died. So after that the breeder slept with them day and night. She got them through ten days, was exhausted but I told her she was out of the woods but just be cautious. She remained sleeping with them - then went to the loo one day for 5 minutes and came back and the dog puppy was under the bitch, laid on, dead.
------

My own bitch xxx, so in experienced hands or so we like to think, had a litter last September, got into very bad whelping complications, delivered two dead puppies, went to the vets and had a long and complicated emergency C Section just to deliver another dead puppy, and, thankfully two live. Of carrying 7 pups only 3 survived, one dying the next night screaming his way out of the world in terrible distress. This flipped an already sensitive and stressed xxx out and she rejected the puppies for a couple of days and went into a kind of hysteria that was only calmed with heavy doses of Valium from the vet. She will now be spayed. The total WHELPING bill was £1750. She took many weeks to truely recover from it, so much so we will delay spaying her a season or two to recover properly internally and hormonally.

I can go on.... seriously.... never think its all about health and happiness because seriously, it rarely is. Just from the fact your bitch may not be a willing bitch to mate you could be distressed from the point where you have to hold her down and she screams and yells not to be mated, through to the point where she may reject the whole litter, have no milk, have no maternal drive, produce deformed pups, pups with physcial deformities that you have to put to sleep.... etc etc^

And then tell me whether or not you think it will be a handy way to make money or to provide an amazing experience for you and your children.

Breeding is hard work, physically, emotionally and financially.

Reading your posts, I don't think you are equipped to do it.

minimu1 · 28/03/2011 14:46

Don't do it.

Please there are thousands of dogs out there already needing a home why bring more dogs into the world.

You MUST be responsible for these dogs for life so over the next 14 years you must be able to accept these dogs back whatever the issues.

Just because your dog is beautiful is no reason to breed from her.

I can guarantee you will make very little money if any. You will need to health check all puppies and parents, vet bills, whelping equipment, food, not allowing for any common issues like infections with the bitch or illness in the puppies.

Your kids will be bored with it after a few days of squealing puppies and you having to sleep beside them for 4 weeks at least.

Your own bitch could suffer

Please don't do it.

Gently · 28/03/2011 14:54

Are you guys for real? Sleep beside them for 4 weeks at least? Dead puppies, dead bitches? Chances are, all will be fine. It's certainly a pretty irresponsible thing to do, deliberately breeding cross-breeds with not much experience, but hardly as bad as you all make out.

catinthehat2 · 28/03/2011 14:55

cripes

Gently · 28/03/2011 14:56

Was that aimed at me, Cat in the Hat? Smile

GelflinGirl · 28/03/2011 15:01

OK i got my answer then, Thank you all for you advise (some very Sad)

Im going to get her spayed Smile

Thanks again x

OP posts:
frostyfingers · 28/03/2011 15:08

I did breed from my lab, successfully. But before I went ahead I had sourced homes and secured deposits, and, 2 years later I still know what the puppies are doing, and see 3 of them on a regular basis. The bitch has now been spayed.

The puppy we kept is due to be spayed shortly as I know that I won't be able to find enough homes and do not want to sell them to strangers, as much as I would like to keep a puppy for ourselves to continue the line. I'm sure when the time comes we'll be able to start again with another dog of whatever breed and love it just as much.

It certainly isn't a money spinner for the "casual" breeder and as others have said is damned hard work although the rewards are many.

I think you've made the right decision, there are lots of lovely dogs out there crying out for homes.

midori1999 · 28/03/2011 16:05

Well, for me the benefits are:

  • Keeping a puppy to bring on and show and hopefully improve and continue my line.

Downsides are:

  • Costs, it costs thousands to rear a litter properly
  • Risk of losing my bitch
  • potential c sectiopn or complications for my bitch
  • Time, puppies DO need 24/7 supervision at least until their eyes are open, preferably until 3 or 4 weeks old and then need constant supervision and clearing up after during waking hours, which for a litter of pups is around 6am until midnight. They also take a lot of time to start socialising properly, begin toilet training etc.
  • the smell, a litter of puppies can stink, despite constant cleaning up after and mopping. Onc you can leave them at night you'll come down to a lovely smell and mess each morning!
  • vetting potential homes and weeding out morons. The right homes are very few and far between, but everyone thinks they have a right to a dog.
  • The risk of having a sick puppy or a puppy with a congential issue and it needing lots of special treatment/extra time and vets bills.
  • The responsibility is huge. Needing to be responsible for all those extra doggy lives throughout their lives and having to take them back at any time. Hoping you have chosen the right home for them after all.
  • The worry and harsh reality that however carefully I have vetted new homes, however much I try to maintain a good relationship with the new owner or what contract they have signed, that a puppy I bred could end up in rescue at any time.

There are so many dogs that need homes, people should only breed if they have a very good reason to and there are loads of really lovely pet dogs that are wonderful, but should still never be bred from. I have a crossbreed dog here, he's gorgeous, but there's no way I would ever breed from him. Not in a million years.

chickchickchicken · 28/03/2011 20:19

OP, i cant do links but if you go to 'help my pup cries all night and day' thread from yesterday and check Vallhalla's post you will find a link with lots more information about breeding.
i read it last night and learnt lots of new information about breeding
i do know where you are coming from. i have a very pretty jrt and people do actually ask me if he has had puppies because he is so good looking. however, it still wouldnt be a responsible thing to do

Vallhala · 28/03/2011 20:42

Just in case you change your mind again, this is all you need to know.

The only difference between Ireland, where that footage was shot, and the UK is that dogs which are thrown out and found straying in the UK get 7 days before they can be - AND OFTEN ARE - killed in the pound. Dogs which are handed into the pound by their owners can be killed immediately in both the UK and Ireland.

Did you know that Battersea "Dogs Home" is a pound? The pound for every London borough in fact? And that Manchester, Cheshire and Birmingham "Dogs Homes" are also pounds? As is Wood Green "Animal Shelter" - it's the pound for several Cambridgeshire councils. They ALL kill thousands of healthy young dogs a year. So does the RSPCA although it's not a pound. It considers itself a rescue despite killing over 60,000 dogs in the last audited year.

Go have a look at one of those pounds. Go ask them how many healthy dogs they kill each year. They won't tell you the truth but you'll get some idea. Then look around, look those dogs in the eye, acknowledge that if they don't get a home soon they will soon be dead.

And tell me where the fuck these good homes are coming from... because as a rescuer I'd sure as hell like to know. Decent, no-kill rescue is full to the brim, on their knees and unable to accomodate a fraction of the dogs who will die each week for want of homes. Hell, even the crap ones are!

And all because someone thinks it's a good idea to breed yet more dogs because their dog is beautiful, because they think it would be an experience for the children, because they want to make a fast buck.

If you want to give your children an amazing experience teach them about the life and death of a dog in a pound and then offer to foster, fund-raise or dog walk for your local rescue.

If none of that convinces you, have a look at these dogs, all as beautiful as yours and all now dead, look at their photos, read about them, see these dogs who died in the pound, dogs I couldn't save beause the pound manager would rather let them be killed than let me place them in rescue here in the UK despite all my efforts and then tell me that you still want to go ahead and breed more dogs. READ THIS AND WEEP.

GelflinGirl · 28/03/2011 23:07

Vallhala, i can see why your upset but i dont deserve this post! I came on asking for advise got it and if you read my other post you will see i am not going to breed her.

I understood why people were feeling frustrated before your post and i aggreed its not a good idea at all. I totally see where your coming from but you dont need to direct all your anger at me.

I also see that your doing a fantastic job and you have given me food for thought about doing something to help.

OP posts:
Vallhala · 28/03/2011 23:18

GeflinGirl, you misunderstood me. None of that is anger... it's all fact. I was perfectly calm (in fact bloody exhausted, far too much so to be angry if I tried) when I wrote it and just as calm now, although even more exhausted.

I'm sure that the other posters on here who are used to my writing style and know what I'm like when I'm angry will confirm this. :o

So, if sorry that you took offence but I can assure you that all I'm expressing are facts.

It would be great to have another person on board the rescue volunteer train... please do speak to some local ones, I'm sure that they'll be very grateful for any help you can offer. Goos luck with it.

catinthehat2 · 28/03/2011 23:25

(GG from earlier 'cripes' was at daisydot's awful post, wasn't having a go)

GelflinGirl · 29/03/2011 00:12

In that case Vallhala i appolagise and thank you for your advise Smile

OP posts:
Vallhala · 29/03/2011 00:16

Hey, no need for an apology... as I said, sorry you took offence.

daisydotandgertie · 29/03/2011 12:23

Heatbreaking, isn't it.

I wouldn't breed from my girls; I just don't know enough to do it well.

terrier141 · 29/03/2011 14:38

I think its great that you asked for advice and have thought things through well - lots of people just do it without a second thought.
For what its worth - i think you have made the right decision! x

GelflinGirl · 29/03/2011 21:11

Yeah, im glad and upset that i asked for advise, glad because i know not to do it now but sad because i never knew any of this Sad Those poor dogs Sad

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