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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

Advice for dog-owning virgin please?

30 replies

Pacific · 24/03/2011 11:59

We are currently thinking about taking one of my friend's puppies. They are the result of an accidental breeding of a skye terrier/Papillon both of whom are pedigree.

We have never had a dog before but we have two very placid cats. We have a good enclosed back garden and access to the countryside for walks.

For the first two months that we will have the puppy, it will occasionally have to be left alone for a few hours but after that there will be someone in the house all the time.

Vet bills/expense is not a problem.

Can anyone give advice? Do you think the puppy will settle with the cats? Is it likely to be yappy? (we do not have nice neighbours.....they will not tolerate any barking) Are there any drawbacks with this crossbreed?

Any comments/advice welcome.

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Pacific · 24/03/2011 12:16

bump

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higgle · 24/03/2011 16:56

I hope someone who can help will be along soon - sounds like a unique pairing to me as neither breed very common. I would have thought that if you findout as much as you can about the character of the parents then you could have some idea about the puppies - they sound like reall sweeties and I hope they find good homes soon.

MotherJack · 24/03/2011 16:59

Someone with really good advice will be along shortly, Pacific - The Doghouse sometimes takes a little time for someone with the right experience.
The last pup I had was 12 years ago now. You'll find that the cats will be boss for a while... mine certainly was of mine - he used to chase him the full length of the garden if he overstepped the mark! He eventually used to groom the cat. I'm sure he thought he was one.

I have no idea on leaving a pup for a few hours, but if it's acceptable then I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised if someone recommends crate training to you as you are going to be out. It would be the pup's safe haven and mean that he/she will not be able to come to harm, either from the cats or himself whilst you are out. I don't know anything about it - I had a fold out pen that I used to put around my pups bed.

One thing I do know about Skye Terriers is they are very short legged and I am sure there is something about very short legged dogs and over-exercising them in the first year causing problems for them. I'm pretty sure the Papillon won't counter this so you may want to look into it. Smile

MotherJack · 24/03/2011 17:00

X-post with higgle!

fruitshootsandheaves · 24/03/2011 17:06

I imagine a cross like that would be quite noisy, quick and need a lot of brushing!
They are both quite extrovert characters.
I don't think you should leave a very small puppy alone for 'a few hours' regularly in its first few months, that may create all sorts of problems due to boredom and/or anxiety.

Pacific · 24/03/2011 21:02

Thanks all.

Mother Jack. I looked on line and you are right about the short legs.

FSH. I have a friend nearby who has said she will come in if necessary to lessen the time the puppy will be left and we really will keep it to an absolute minimum. I have also been advised to use a crate or a pen.

Bumping for further advice

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Pacific · 24/03/2011 21:27

Higgle.The pups have been very well cared for and the mum is a sweetie. Very good natured so that bodes well for the temperament of the pups.

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daisydotandgertie · 24/03/2011 22:03

When you say 'occasionally' and 'a few hours' what do you mean?

We recently added a puppy to our other 2 dogs and she was left alone for an hour followed by an hour an a half 3 mornings a week. She's done really well with it. She was crated when we weren't there which I'm sure was a bit odd for her as the other 2 dogs have free run of the house, but it stopped her getting into mischief and helped a lot with toilet training.

I really would recommend crate training with a puppy whether you're there or not - it makes house training very much easier and faster as well as keeping the puppy safe - and out of trouble.

The pup won't have a clue about cats - and I expect will learn very quickly to leave them well alone. The adult cats will take charge very quickly!

With regard to barking, with the right training, you can stop or start pretty much any dog barking on command. In your situation, some time spent with a trainer early on would be money and time well spent.

I don't follow the advice limiting exercise to a set time per month, I tend to work on building up muscle to support growing joints instead (entirely personal belief, based on my experience) but I do stop them doing stairs when they're tiny and from jumping in and out of cars and so on to protect their joints from great stress. I know not everyone agrees though.

I'd also get some quotes for good pet insurance, to cover vets bills, third party liability and accidental damage. You honestly never know what trouble your dog will get into. M&S and Pet Plan both do good gold plated policies.

I'm sorry haven't any idea about the specific breeds involved - I'm a gundog sort of girl I'm afraid.

As general advice, puppies are very, very high maintenance. They haven't a clue what you expect from them, or why and it takes a long time to teach them. There'll be a lot of sleepless nights and masses of wee and poo (and probably a bit of sick) to clear up too. You'll also have to puppy proof - if there's something knocking about on the floor they'll chew it - cables, pens, telephones, remotes - you name it (our best to date has been a packet of purple ink cartridges; she had a purple tongue, purple teeth, purple gums and eventually purple wee. We had purple patches on the carpet Grin).

Having said all of that, we have a 10 year old, a 5 year old and a 9 month old all from puppies and I'd have another puppy in a heartbeat. They are the dearest, funniest, most loving things.

JaxTellersOldLady · 24/03/2011 22:15

OP, I cant wait to see a picture of these puppies, what a unique if bizarre (accidental) pairing.

Get a crate, like others have said, it will make life easier for you and the puppy, and the cats too.

Like daisy and others have said, puppies are hard work - fun, loving, cute and snuggly, but hard work.

For the first few weeks it is sort of like having a baby again, you learn when they need the loo, (often) feeding is regimented (3 or 4 times a day) and choosing a name becomes a huge deal.

Scuttlebutter · 24/03/2011 22:48

OP what are the health checks for these two breeds? Do you know if your friend has had any done on either the bitch or the dog? Or the pups? One of the problems with these sorts of breeders is that they rarely do the necessary checks, and while an individual pup might be healthy at the moment, you need to be aware of any inherited problems that could be tested for.

Were you thinking about a dog anyway? Have you sat down and thought through all the issues, financial, time commitment, exercise, puppyhood, relationship with DC, allergy issues and so on?

Not wishing to be negative, but homes where there has not been a conscious effort to get a dog, but simply a dog become available (like your situation as described) are those most likely to give up the dog in the future. Please don't be swayed by an adorable ball of fluff - please think of it pooing on your carpet three times a night, not being able to leave it for very long, and having a potential fifteen year commitment (probably long after your DC have left home). I'd much rather put you off owning a dog now than the dog being rehomed in a few months when it's a stroppy teenager or is found to have inherited health problems.

JaxTellersOldLady · 25/03/2011 11:11

you are quite right scuttle having a dog (or any animal) is a huge commitment, but as this was an accidental mating I doubt if health checks have even been thought about, let alone done.

Pacific · 26/03/2011 10:38

Hi. Thanks everyone.

Daisy, Thanks for the advice about crates. That is sounding more doable. The pup would very occasionally be left alone for the first six weeks it is with us. The actual time alone is similar to what you have described so not a huge amount. I have to make sure that the pup won't be stressed. After the first few weeks, there will be someone around all the time.

Scuttlebutter, I don't think you fully understood my OP. I am currently researching all the things you mention as I wish to be fully responsible for the dog.

Jax. I haven't seen the pups myself yet, They are still very young and my friend is not allowing visitors to lessen stress on the mum. But I promise if we get one, I will put up photos.

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Pacific · 26/03/2011 10:43

Can someone tell me a bit more about crate training a pup? Do you put a litter tray in the crate? A bed? etc.

Keep the advice coming.

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silentcatastrophe · 26/03/2011 15:44

No litter tray!! A bed and a bowl of water is enough. You will want to housetrain the pup ASAP by going outside with it and praising and treating like mad when it's done its stuff. Dogs don't like to make a mess in their bed. I think you will need to take the pup out about once an hour during the daytime. Obviously less during the night! Some people keep the crate close to where they sleep, at the beginning, then move it further away in time. A crate, to a dog, is like a den.

We haven't crate-trained any of our dogs although I'm sure it would have been much easier for us if we had. Instead we have dog baskets all over the place and dogs all over the place and it's a bit chaotic.

It would be really worthwhile looking at dog training places and seeing what's on offer. Dog clubs are good for advice and support. Your local vet may be good for training and behaviour advice, but I have found them to be more interested in medicine than behaviour!

Pacific · 26/03/2011 15:47

Had a look at crates in Pets at Home. So this may be the way to go.

Has anyone got experience using a crate? Daisy are you around?

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Pacific · 26/03/2011 15:48

Sorry silent. X-post!

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sharbie · 26/03/2011 15:52

good luck

yy crates are best - not sure about terriers with cats.all local terrier type dogs round here hate my cats....

daisydotandgertie · 26/03/2011 21:57

For our girls, I have 2 crates - a puppy sized one and a larger one. They start off in the little crate and move up as they grow. They make them now with dividers you can use instead of getting 2.

I make sure the puppy's bed fills the crate, and I don't leave water or anything else in there (expect for a warm wheatie teddy bear at night when they're very little). I also drape a big fleece over the top of it to keep out cold air and make it feel as safe and cosy as possible. Puppies are not brilliant at maintaining their own body temperature, so I keep absolutely on the ball with warmth and so on for the first 4 weeks or so.

The puppy will choose to go into the crate to rest pretty quickly, but you'll have to teach it what it's all about in the beginning. I do it by cuddling the puppy to sleep and then popping it into the crate with a tiny training treat as it wakes up in the transfer bit. I am very soft though Grin.

You'll have to take the puppy outside every half hour or so and after every meal, every sleep and every game during the day - and house training should be cracked really quickly. You'll quickly spot the wee signals too which will help.

For the crate training to work when they're tiny, you will have to take the puppy outside for a wee every 3 hours during the night - and let it out every time it squeaks. We find that we also have to cuddle to tiny puppies back to sleep at night before they're popped back into the crate otherwise they get very stressed and cry for hours.

There is a school of thought that says you should ignore the crying otherwise they learn that crying equals attention - but I'm not with it. I really am soft and don't want my dogs stressed; and I want them to know that if they cry, I'll go to them.

Whatever you do, don't use paper or puppy pads - you'll have to do house training twice. As soon as the puppy has learned to wee on a pad/paper, it'll have to learn something new and have to wee outside instead. Take the dog outside, pick a word to use when it wees and repeat it everytime the puppy wees and pretty soon it'll wee on command. Same goes with poo.

With what you're planning - I'd make sure that I didn't leave the puppy alone during the first week. That would be far to much to ask of it. It'll be a tiny, vulnerable thing when it arrives and it will need a week to settle in a bit, learn to love it's crate and stop doing Mr Whippy poo.

Then gently teach it about being left. Don't make a fuss when you leave, just go out for a minute and then with no fuss, come back in. Repeat at random during the day. Build it up to 2 minutes, then 3, and so on. You'll be able to gauge how your puppy copes yourself and build up the time accordingly.

With your neighbour problem, you need to be absolutely sure your puppy learns about separation with no anxiety or stress which will help avoid noise while you're away.

hth. Daisy.

Scuttlebutter · 26/03/2011 23:03

Pacific, I think I did understand your OP - but was trying to be tactful. Clearly not successful. You did ask for "any comments/advice". Considering genetic issues is an important point for many breeds/crosses.

Skye terriers are very rare in the UK, and in fact are on the Endangered list because so few are registered each year with the KC. A quick Google revealed a number of genetic issues, in particular to do with renal function. If the dam is the Skye, has she (as recommended by the Ske Terrier Club) been scanned for renal function? Bluntly, what I am trying to say, since being tactful didn't work, is that you should be asking about this since otherwise your poor pup could be prematurely dead/seriously ill from kidney issuesn or other health problems unless you have asked these questions? I haven't even checked on what issues affect Papillons but again, a quick Google will start to give you a heads up.

MotherJack · 27/03/2011 00:02

Pacific - I know you aren't a regular to the doghouse (as a self confessed potential dog-owning virgin!) but Scuttle does know her stuff in respect of this and is just trying to make you aware of the problems and pitfalls. It may well sound a bit blunt, but I am confident in saying it is with 100% with the very best intentions for both you and the dog.

That said, Scuttle... the deed is done and is too late for healthchecks. If the pup can find a home prepared to do the research and have financial means for vets, then it may well be a decent one... and a far better life than the one I have had to deal with from the pound today.

silentcatastrophe · 27/03/2011 10:54

I thought that a lot of genetic problems were caused because of inbreeding. If what you get is basically a mutt, surely you are less likely to have the problems of a hugely inbred genetic freak. Sorry to rant. I am upset that we breed things that are not fit to live.

Pacific · 27/03/2011 20:24

Sorry Scuttle. I didn't mean to offend. My very doggy-experienced friend was duped into adopting the mummy dog (long story which I cannot go into for fear of identification), then discovered the pregnancy which resulted in the litter. The pairing was an accident which the original owner denied all knowledge of. Now my friend is left to mop up the mess. We do know that both mum and dad dog are healthy pedigrees. And that is about all the info I have. Hence my desperate need for info and determination to make the right decision.

We are still considering what to do.........the pups will not be ready for another month but I can assure you all that we will not take a pup without being fully committed.

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Pacific · 27/03/2011 20:30

Daisy, your post is exactly the sort of very practical advice I need. DD will be at home for the first two weeks at least so can carry out all the tasks you mention, and we certainly have space for a crate.

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daisydotandgertie · 29/03/2011 12:26

You're welcome!

To me, whether it's this puppy or another, it sounds as though you would make a lovely doggy home.

Pacific · 15/05/2011 18:41

hi all. thought i would up date this thread. we got a lovely wee boy puppy who is currently snuggled in my arms .......so one finger typing! he is soooooo cute and bright as a button. he is now 11 weeks and almost crate/house trained. my friend had the pups almost trained before they left their mum.

he sleeps through the night and is now going out for walks after his jabs. the vet says he seems healthy and in proportion apart from his ears which are bigger than his head!

i love him to bits and i am so glad we got him. he has settled very well and is even starting to make friends with my old men cats!

sorry, i know i promised a photo but he is so unique that i am scared he is recognised and i am outed!

thank you for all the advice further up thread.....it was all useful.

Smile
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