Experienced advice on toilet training pups please!

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Rollo - a 6 week old golden retriever puppy - will be joining our family next Sunday! He'll be 7 weeks old then and will have spent his life, to date, mixing with 3 litters (19 pups in all) and various adult dogs in the breeder's home. He currently has the run of one big room, shared with sibs and cousins but has never been outdoors.

He's used to weeing and pooing anywhere he likes - on newspaper. The breeder advised me to put down newspaper for him nearer and nearer our back door and then outside to begin the process of getting him to toilet outside.

Would this be the right thing to do - or will introducing newspaper at our home simply make the toilet training longer and harder?

Secondly, the breeder advised me to leave him at night and not sleep nearby/ get up to take him out - but have part of his crate covered with newspaper. She said he'll develop separation anxiety if I'm there for him all the time.

I was thinking of spedding at leat the first few nights sleeping beside his crate, however and trying to take him out to toilet if he whines a lot. But would that be setting up bad habits?

I'm finding it hard to know how to support the toilet training process but also let him get used to time alone and also look after my own and my DCs needs.

Anyone with loads of experience - could you please advise?

BTW, I am completely besotted with him already although we've only met him properly once! I'm sure he's the loveliest one in the litters!

Our dog sleeps under the bed or in the crate next to the bed and has never had a problem with separation anxiety. That may depend on the dog though. We did not leave her alone for a good while when we got her, and gradually worked up to it, hour by hour.

I had paper out near the door and everytime I saw her squat, would whisk her outdoors. I also took her out every hour.

As soon as she started weeing, I, chanted, "Daphne, be quick, be quick...". This should meant when the dog hears you say that (or you can say something else) he automatically pees. It worked well with her.

I know many swear by the crates, but we hardly used ours. She sleeps in it now as she is too big for sleeping under the bed.

Personally I wouldn't bother with newspaper but would definitely use a crate.

Toilet training is really not difficult although just like children some a re easier than others.

You need to devote a lot of time for a few weeks. Take him out when he wakes up, before he goes to sleep, before you feed him, after you feed him, before you play with him, after you play with him...you get the idea. It is about every half an hour when he is awake. I always say "do you want to go OUT" when taking him out and then "wee-wee" as soon as he starts weeing. Praise when he stops, not before and don't immediately whisk him in again as he may learn that fun times outside end as soon as he's been!

There will be accidents but don't get cross, clean up with bio detergent solution to get rid of the smell.

Keep him in a limited space (eg the kitchen) for a few weeks and only introduce to the rest of the house slowly, especially carpets as most pups seem to see these as grass like!

Finally the prevalence of crates have made training so much easier. Use it whenever you aren't with him, even to go to the loo.

letting him out at night may be needed at first but my last pup went from 10pm to 6am at 10 weeks.

Good luck.

2nd the crate idea for toilet training - have a google - you may need to section off an area of a bigger crate (in a safe manner) for it to be small enough to feel like a den to him.

dogs have a den instinct so won't mess their den (if they can help it) - the theory is if he's been in his den (crate) overnight or for a while - he is likely to need to go - so when he comes out of the crate you go straight outside and he does a wee or poo and gets lots of praise.

also just keep putting him outside all the time especiually if he's just eaten or drank something, if he's just woken up, if he's just stopped playing a game.

yep you need a special pet cleaner to clean up indoor messes - cos they go where they smell they've been before (and bleach etc can amplify the urea wee smell)

be patient and devote a lot of time to training you dog (because you reap the rewards when it is older)

I just went for the cold turkey option with my springer. He went in the crate at night with a cardboard box for his bed and a radio on (obviously not in with him as he would have eaten it!). He screamed till 2 oclock the first night, and for 20 minutes the second night and then nothing (we were still awake at 2 thou as we couldn't believe he wasn't making a noise!) and has gone through the night since.

I wouldn't bother with the newspaper, just watch for signs of circling and also take him out soon after each meal and as soon as he wakes up and praise him when he does something.

Some of these breeders really need to get up to date with the advice that they hand out.

I would never use paper - the breeder is using paper because it is easier for them - not for the benefit of the dog.

If you use paper indoors your dog will have no idea whether he can wee indoors or not.

If you have a large garden I would section off a bit of garden near the back door and put him their every half hour or hour to start with. Goldies are usually great and will learn very quickly. Re overnight I would crate him take him out last thing and then again earl in the morning. There is a good chance he will go from 11.00- 6.30 easily at 7 weeks.

Up to you re the first night - I do tend to crate them and leave them to it fror the first few nights. They can howl and yelp and sound as if they are being murdered but get over it in a max of 3 nights if left alone.

If you do choose to stay with him you can just prolong the agony for them- but up to you.

The biggest thing you must do is stay relaxed - don't try too hard to get it right - just go with the flow. Dogs will pick up on anxiety quicker than anything - if you do make a mistake never mind your dog will still love you!

How much time do you have?

Take him out every 20 minutes at first, if he goes then lots of fuss and a treat. Always use the same door to go outside and say the same thing. Let him have the run of the house - you'll just have to be prepared for accidents. If he starts showing signs of wanting to go out, e.g. sitting by the door then out you go!

If he has any accidents then DO NOT get angry or even worse, rub his nose in it. Just ignore and accept it was your fault. But take him outside straightaway.

Overnight - you could crate him but don't go more than 6 hours at first. Dogs rarely soil their crate.

P.S. I wouldn't use paper either.

Many, many thanks. That's very helpful. I think I'm clearer now and I think I've read this on the Ian Dunbar website too - about using the crate a lot at first and waiting till the pup really wants to go to the toilet - so the minute you let him out, he'll definitely go and you can then praise and reward him.

I've got an extra large crate but a crate divider too, which I'll use till he grows bigger.

I've bought an extra large puppy pen which I was going to use for the garden when I can't supervise him every second. This is because we've got an unfenced natural swimming pond (freshwater) and we don't want him to drown in it. May fence it off or may train intensively for him not to go in and then to learn to go in from the shallow end, using the steps - but with me alongside him (so need to wait until it's warm enough again to swim in).

Minimu, if I put the puppy pen near the back door, would it be OK to have him do a short walk into it - or, when you say, 'fence off part of the garden' - does that mean that the pup needs to be able to walk straight out of the door into the fenced off bit?

We have a largish patio and then lawn and then pond. Should I teach him to toilet on the paved patio or on the grassy lawn?

Sorry there are so many questions. Oh - another thing - I keep getting mixed messages from people about whether I should ONLY focus on Rollo for at least the first week or should keep on working a bit but space out my work during the day? My work - which is from home - involves one hour meetings in the home, during which I can't get up and rush off to puppy. I can decide how many meetings I fix up and the most I've ever done in a day is 6 - but of course now I'm going to be a puppy owner, that needs to change.

Roughly how long - if at all - is it OK to leave Rollo alone during any one day? The owner suggested one to two hours at a time but I'm sure 2 hrs may be too long. Is one hour, every few hours, OK or should I just drop work for a bit and focus on settling him in?

Sorry there are so many questions. I just want to get it right...yet try to stay relaxed too of course

with leaving you just have to build up

for overnight - i would start with crate in your room and gradually move it towards the door - then outside on the landing then downstairs (or wherever its going to be more permanently)

for leaving during the day (you going out) - your puppy will want to follow you everywhere - so occasionally pop out of the room and don't let him follow and pop back in

build up the time you leave him gradually, and time you leave him in the crate starting from 5 minutes - then he won't get traumatised, and will know and trust that you always come back.

don't crate him all the time - he need to play and roam around.

also get him usd to everything you can get him used to as soon as you can - like the vacuum cleaner, like going in the car, like meeting other people and other dogs (when he's had his jabs) and socializing, walking by traffic etc

If you can then i would try and spend a week really focusing on Rollo and keep work meetings to a minimum. I got my pup at the beginning of the autumn half term and was able to take the week off work to concentrate on him. He was 90% reliably house trained by the end of that week. You could also spend that time training him to the crate so that when you are working you will know he will be happy to go in to sleep for an hour.

Puppies are like babies and need frequent naps so hopefully he will fit in fine with your working patterns so long as he has learnt to love his crate first. Have you got a kong to stuff with treats to keep him occupied when crated?

Re patio or lawn - I took mine onto the grass at first as it seemed to prompt the wee quicker (maybe to do with the smells, nose goes down and he wees!) but he is now very fond of a patch of pebbles right outside the door which is great when it is raining and cockers have sponge like paws!

Thanks you again. Very helpful advice. Yes, I've bought loads of kong related toys for him that I can stuff with his ordinary food and extra tasty bits. What can a little puppy have without reacting to a new food - or should it just be his normal food at the moment?

Still not sure whether we need to fence off a part of the garden starting from the back door - or if I can lead him to a playpen for toileting - but this would mean having to ensure he didn't stray towards other parts of the garden before reaching the playpen.

Can anyone advise?

Kong stuffings are well covered on here if you do a search. Easiest and guaranteed not to upset his tummy would be soften some of his normal food, stuff and freeze. Or use peanut butter, cheese spread or grated cheese as the "glue" to stick the biscuits together.

My garden isn't big enough for playpens so I don't know the answer to your other question but this bumps it up a bit!

Thanks Batteryhuman I think I'll start with wetting some of his normal biscuits and sticking themm in a kong. Can kongs go in the dishwasher BTW?

The breeder told me to give Rollo 3 to 4 meals in a bowl a day and not to put his food in kongs, as I'd read about on Ian Dunbar website. Presumably, getting food into him at all is initially more important than giving him something to do with food as the motivator - although I expect it won't do any harm to put some of his daily allowance into kongs?

Anyone else advise on the playpen vs fencing off garden issue?

IF you want your dog to only go to the loo (good idea) then use the playpen in the part you want him to go do his business in. Or fence a part off. Either or, doesnt matter.

When you are toilet training, keep him on his lead, take him out to the pen/fenced off part of garden, give him a command 'busy' is what I use and when he pees/poos repeat command, praise like a lunatic and bring back in.

Hope that helps you.

Re the Kong, I would feed breakfast in a bowl, mid morning/lunch in a Kong, next meal in bowl and last meal in a kong. Just use his normal food, moistened for now until he gets settled in. You can buy puppy treats in all the pet shops.

Please dont use newspaper or puppy pads, just take him straight outside and he will learn really quickly that is where he needs to go do his toileting.

Good luck! I had my puppy house trained by the time she was 9weeks old, rarely had an accident.

A crate is essential in my opinion, I honestly dont think my dogs would still be alive if they werent crated as puppies! And I dont mean that I would have done anything to them, puppies chew and they are indiscriminate about what they chew! Walls, floors, shoes, make up, perfume bottles... electric cables. Anything and everything is fair game until they learn not to.