Just fed my first BARF meal!

[musicposy]

Hi there, our JRTx puppy is 10 months and having been educated by lots of stuff on here, I decided to wean her off the rubbish she's been on since the breeder (Pedigree Puppy tins and Bakers puppy kibble). A little while back I changed the kibble to Jollyes Puppy lifestage as someone on here found it good and I really like that, as does she.

Yesterday I went for a wander round Jollyes in search for something to replace the tins and found some freeflow minces, and some poultry necks.

I thought I should start gradually so yesterday evening gave her 100g poultry necks raw, along with some kibble.

She absolutely loved it! It was a little more crunchy than I'd been expecting and DD2, who is a strict veggie, kept out of the way as it was a bit much for her! I was worried the bones would upset her in some way, but this morning, so far, so good.

Some questions for all you BARF feeders. How do I know how much to give her? She currently weighs 10kg. I imagine about 12kg will be her rough adult weight tops. Should I aim to drop the kibble altogether? (Pic on profile shows her rough size!)

Are they more susceptible to parasites or worms on BARF? (she's regularly wormed etc)

Plus, I have so far kept our sheltie on his Butchers tripe tins as they've suited him so long (yes, I now know they are rubbish) and JWB kibble a couple of years back made him cough terribly after a while and he got quite ill on it. He's 9 so I'm worried about changing his diet, and about his digestion coping with the bones - he tends to swallow everything whole. Would you change him over too?

I'm quite excited about it as I think Poppy will grow up far healthier!

I'm not a BARF feeder (lack of access to supply of meat, no room for another freezer, am squeamish vegan!) but something which MIGHT be worth mentioning is that although not the best, Butchers is far from the worst non natural food you could feed your elder dog. It's given to the epileptic dogs I know, my own included, when we've run out of or can't at that moment access the other foods they normally have as it has no additives etc in it and is therefore as safe as a pre-prepared dogfood can get for them.

The BARF feeders will have far better insight than I but personally I wouldn't panic over feeding Butchers in comparison to the Bakers/Chum etc that you could be feeding.

OK, thank you, Val. The Butchers tripe does seem to suit him - better than anything else we've tried. It does seem better than the Pedigree/ Bakers that Poppy has been on - Poppy's been wanting to eat his food instead of hers in the past. That's reassuring as I felt I would initially just try Poppy with the raw food.

I know what you mean about the sqeamishness, even DD1 left the kitchen and said "I might have to become a vegetarian"

Hi,

I've been feeding BARF for 9 months now, have found it fantastic.

You'll need to feed 1-2% of her bodyweight per day, so about 100-200g. Probably 200g as she is still growing. Over time you'll need to to give her 80% meat (heart is a meat, by the way), 5% liver, 5% non liver organs and 10% bone (not beef bones or non-poultry weight bearing bones - we give pork ribs).

Having a small dog really makes it 100 times easier in terms of prep and storage. Lamb hearts are the perfect size for our dogs (I have an 11kg Havanese). I get two packs of hearts and a roll of lamb breast from the supermarket and that does me for two weeks, along with the occasional pack of pork ribs, kidneys and liver.

I also supplement my dog with a fish oil tablet every day (NOT cod liver oil). They don't need anything else but some people do give vegetables and fruit off cuts, seeds, oils and eggs. Other BARFers think these additions are bad for the dog and the should stick to meat. You have to decide.

In terms of meat, try and stick to lamb and beef. These are much more likely to be grass fed than pig and poultry, which will be fed on cereals and also more likely to be intensively farmed with lots of added salt, antibiotics etc.

Ideally you need to dump the kibble! When I changed over I did it suddenly and we didn't have any problems. Do keep you eye on her stool though - if it's hard, then don't feed any bone for a few days until it becomes soft, then feed bone again.

Best of luck!

That's very helpful!

When you say 10% bone, do you do that by weight? So if she had 200g food a week, that would be 20g bone? Do you work it out so it comes right over a week or longer rather than each day?

Another thing puzzling me - I was always told not to give dogs pork. My parent's dog was once fed a pork sandwich by a family friend and was very sick. The vet said never to give dogs pork. Yet I read on here that people give their dogs pork and recommend it. Their dogs are obviously not ill each time. Any ideas about this?

I've just googled Havanese to see what they look like - so cute!!

I feed mostly raw meat but not a BARF diet. I use raw free flow mince (mainly tripe), if you just feed this you need to mix it with a mixer biscuit (not kibble) I also add salmon oil and 'Easy Greens' or 'Keepers Mix' (on alternating days) from Dorwest Herbs. I also occasionally give chicken wings, eggs, mackerel, tuna.

One thing to bear in mind is to never mix a complete kibble with raw meat as the stomach digests the two diiferently.

It is ok to feed raw/kibble at alternating meals if you wish.

hmm - i've fed complete biscuit with prize choice bricks for years with no probs!

occasionally using bread/ potatoe as substitiute...

i think pork is fine for treats (mine loves pork sausage) but doesn't seem right for main diet - tripe seems the best meat for my particular dog, though I really can't stand the smell.

I can't recommend Prize Choice enough as similar to the OP our dog came home being fed dry food/ pedigree chum - and had terrible tummy problems - resolved by feeding various kinds of barf - the easiest method (much easier than, say, buying and cooking human-quality meats) being Prize Choice bricks.

I was told by a couple of very experienced dog people who gave me advice when I started feeding some raw food, about the not mixing of raw and kibble and I took it on board.

Following EdgaeAleNpie's comment I did some googling and it appears it is a bit of a myth, sorry op.

I use Prize Choice meat too, very easy to get hold of. I would like to buy from somewhere like TMPS or Berriewoods as it works out cheaper, but need a bigger freezer first!

I also use pork sausage as treats, in particular hotdog when I need him to really pay attention, but also wouln't use it as a main food.

Music, they are soo cute! And proper dogs too, love running around, not lap dogs at all. Not very clever though, I miss that from when I had JRTs.

No, you work it out over a week or a month. As our dogs are identical weights, it may help if I post my dogs weekly menu for you...

Monday lamb heart
Tues 1 1/2 lamb kidneys, small pork rib
Wed 150g of lanmb breast
Thur lamb heart and 70g of lamb liver
Fri 150g lamb breast
Sat lamb heart and small pork rib
Sun 150g lamb breast

When I get the big packs of lamb liver and kidneys, I just spend 10 minutes parcelling it out into the relevant sizes and wrapping in cling film before freezing. Same with the lamb breast and I just get the hearts out and package up individually. Then I pull one out in the morning, and by the evening it is defrosted and I just chuck it as it is onto the lawn outside and ten minutes later it's like it was never there!

Other people are very adventurous with raw fish and raw tripe and windpipes and necks and all sorts but this works for me.

Oh, and do join the yahoo mailing group Britbarf. Loads of info there.

This is all so helpful - thanks everyone! I'm really enjoying reading this all and all the links and suggestions as to what people get. I love mumsnet.

Prize choice is what I've bought so far. I did buy it years ago to try Budgen on (our elder dog), but was cooking it then and I just couldn't abide the smell! It's only since being on here I've learnt about feeding raw. This time I got poultry necks, lamb mince and chicken mince. This afternoon I got out some lamb mince to defrost - Poppy goes mad with excitement just when I take it out of the packet! I will look at the livers as I see they do that. Also I'll have a look at the supermarket for lamb hearts etc, and veggies and fish oil supplements. Luckily I have a chest freezer which is mostly only half full!

I did mix with kibble yesterday but probably won't do that long term as I gradually get to grips with a proper BARF diet.

Am unreasonably excited over a bit of dog food!

@ your chest freezer.

Would seriously look at TPMS, Berriwoods or Landwoods depending on where you are.

They have a huge range and deliver, will be much cheaper than Prize choice/supermarket route. Also ask your butcher (if you have one, you can often get lots of stuff for free or pence.

Also Fish4Dogs for salmon oil and Dorwest for Keepers Mix etc (look under 'natural feeding').

I don't claim to be an expert AT ALL but all the really die hard expert BARFers on the forums are dead against mince. Apparently because it has been handled more it has more chance of giving the dog food poisoning, and also because one of the ideas of BARF is to mimic how dogs eat naturally - that is, tearing up chunks of meat/organs. This strengthens the jaw and chest, and cleans the teeth.

Agree HarderToKidnap, that's why I say I don't feed BARF just raw.

I would class myself as a raw feeder, rather than a BARFer. Have been doing it for almost 6 years now.

I feed pork regualrly with no problems. There is no reason not to as long as your dog tolerates it well. One of my dogs can be picky but she'll never refuse a pork rib. Shame they're so damned expensive these days.

Similarly, I feed mince if I can get it cheap. Although our lovely butcher will keep a quantity of meat unminced for us so I only buy mince if it's really cheap in Tesco or the like (the 'reduced to clear' shelf in the chilled section of Tesco can be a treasure trove for the raw feeder on occasion).

Sorry, can't advise on quantities as my dogs are closer to 60kg and I feed by eye...I'd be lost trying to feed a little'un like a JRT!

Been Barfing for years - glad you enjoyed your first barf meal. Few pointers

As mentioned above do not feed kibble and Barf in the same meal. Different time of day is fine

If the meat is frozen there is little concern re food poisoning - pork included

Mince is fine - no problem with food poisoning at all - HarderToKid in the wild dogs will eat stomach contents of their prey so will consume minced meat!

Agreed bones will help to clean teeth so a balance is the way to go.

Feed 2% of body weight of full grown dog I would start off with 3% of body weight of a growing dog and adjust by the appearance of the dog.

Do not introduce too much bone to start with as it can cause dreadful constipation - so you need to be up for poo studying!

Only introduce one type of meat at a time and leave the dog on it for a week or so to start with before introducing new meat.

Be ready to have a healthy, gleaming dog with fantastic breath and no doggy smell

Tripe will be your friend!

They will consume a very, very small amount of semi-digested meat. But most prey items of present wild dog species are herbivores. Very few carnivores eat carnivores (exception is wild pigs, which will eat meat occasionally). I don't think that equates to mince being a large part of the diet of a wild dog? Maybe a mouthful or two every few months? Not arguing, just pondering...

I think the point I was trying to make is that mince is way way better than kibble and a much more healthy food for a dog to be eating. There is little risk of food poisoning if the food is frozen and some pet mince has ground bone in it.

Even hardcore core barfers would agree.

Yes, way way better than commercial dog food.

I don't do barf or raw. I couldn't do bark with my dog because he is huge and the amount of meat he would need I would need my own butcher shop. But he does get a lot of meat and the rarer the better. I have tried raw once, it was a very small amount of good quality steak and he wolfed it down but the diarrhea the next day was awful. I don't know if that's normal but I've stuck to rare or medium well done meat.

Could someone tell me the difference between kibble and biscuits? For example, I use royal canin dry food is this kibble?

mmsmum yes, that is kibble, biscuit refered to here, is just to mix with meat raw or cooked but is just cereal based.

Fwiw I would expect raw steak given to a dog not used to raw, would be very likely to give it the runs, it is very rich.

Thanks WhereTheWildThingsWere, I'm always interested in learning new things

mmsmum, I feed 2 dogs of approx 60kg each on raw food...it actually works out far cheaper than feeding them on one of the better quality complete dry foods.

Chest freezer is a must, we just picked up a second hand one very cheep.

Def visit the butchers, ours puts stuff aside and we just pick it up at the weekend.

I alternate dry and raw, mine have two meals a day.