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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

Aggressive Dogs - what to do with them

53 replies

minimu1 · 04/03/2011 13:47

I just wanted to gauge your views. I am fostering a dog aggressive collie and have had been given many opinions as to whether this is the right thing to do.

He has bitten other dogs with his ex owner. He is now muzzled and under training to change his behaviour. However he will bark, attempt to bite and lunge if dogs come too close to him or will charge at them if they come across him. Obviously this is a long term project and no one can really predict the outcome.

Views are from both ends of the spectrum from he should be put to sleep, to great that he is being rehabilitated.

Do you have an opinion and would you be prepared to work with a dog aggressive dog? Should a dog like this be walked on public land?

OP posts:

seeker · 04/03/2011 18:45

I don;t think that defending yourself or your dinner is being aggressive - I don't think that sort of normal dog behaviour is what the OP's talking about, is it? If it is, then I retract my PTS immediately advice.

I agree that a dog doesn't deserve to be PTS because it's been fucked up by a human. However, the fact remains that it is fucked up, and unless the only person it is likely ever to bite is the fucker-up, then sadly it has to go.

midori1999 · 04/03/2011 19:04

The fact remains that in the main, these dogs can be rehabilitated or at least kept in a situation where no-one or no dog is put at risk.

seeker · 04/03/2011 19:09

I disagree - I don't think a dog that has been aggressive can ever be trusted again. And what sort of a life is it for a dog that can never have any freedom or normal interactions with other dogs and people. They are social animals - it's cruel to deny them that.

midori1999 · 04/03/2011 19:14

How much exprience have you had with aggressive dogs to know they can't be trusted again? I have posted above about my own dog previously aggressive with humans he didn't know, but no longer so, he is completely trustworthy and in fact a real softy. Valhalla will, I am sure, be happy to tell you about all the 'aggressive' dogs she has/does work with too.

No-one has ever suggested keeping dogs with no human or animal contact, just that they can be managed in such a way no-one is put at risk.

seeker · 04/03/2011 19:18

Agree to differ.

chickchickchicken · 04/03/2011 20:41

minimu - i am glad you are giving the dog a chance. he is so young and deserves the chance from someone experienced like you to train him

i cannot offer any advice as you know so much more about training than i do but i can offer my opinion - i think you (not a novice dog owner) should walk him on public land and give him every chance possible

btw i do know lots of collies who make fantastic family pets. of course owners have to exercise them physically and mentally.

chickchickchicken · 04/03/2011 20:42

hope that didnt sound bossy

magnolia74 · 04/03/2011 23:31

ripeberry what a load of shite

magnolia74 · 04/03/2011 23:31

seeker Ditto

bedlambeast · 05/03/2011 01:42

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Original poster

minimu1 · 05/03/2011 10:59

Thanks for all your comments - I had made the dreadful mistake of listening and worrying about other people comments in RL. Not sure what came over me!

I have had to be a bolshy sod at times to push for what I think is right and had a major wobble. No more!
I am back on the case and this dog will have a better quality of life however long it takes and however many snide comments I receive.

OP posts:

seeker · 05/03/2011 11:01

Just so long as his better quality of life doesn't result in a worse quality of life for anyone else - human or canine.

Original poster

minimu1 · 05/03/2011 11:40

I agree Seeker it will always need to be managed carefully and the behaviour must not impact on anyone of any animal in a negative way.

OP posts:

JaxTellersOldLady · 05/03/2011 11:48

good luck minimu, sure you will do right by the dog and your family.

BeenBeta · 05/03/2011 11:59

minimu - just a couple of thoughts.

Have you considered perhaps using formal obedience training as a way of tackling this dog?

My experience of border collies is on my father's farm and a fair few of those were nervous of humans and could be quite aggressive but when employed to do their job of herding were not aggressive at all.

I am just wondering as others have alluded to whether this highly intelligent dog needs an outlet for a brain that is in overdrive.

It will be tricky as going to obedience classes will involve being with other dogs but it might be worth a try on your own if you have an area to do it in. Also it will give the dog some excercise it will not be able to get just going for a walk. Border collies were bred to run up and down hills all day and every day.

This is a tough challenge and not one I think many people would be willing to undertake. If you have children please be careful. I would never leave any dog alone with a child.

Crawling · 05/03/2011 12:14

I was badly mauled by a dog as a child lucky to have lived but that dog was not aggressive to other dogs. Dog aggression is a very different thing to people aggression.

I could not personally do it I could not be around a dog showing any aggression and I do not have the ability to deal with this dog however that is because I am me and not a dog trainer like you I have looked into dog aggression alot in order to understand why I was attacked and all the information I found sais there is no reason to suspect this dog is any more dangerous to people than any other dog.

I think you are doing the right thing and having investigated why I was mauled I discovered that the dog was trained to be aggressive, if you can train it to be aggressive then you can train it not to be. Once this is sorted I see no reason why you would be unable to rehome the dog. I am glad that someone as responsible as you has got involved before things were to late for this dog, and if someone had done that for the dog that bit me I wouldnt be left with the scars I carry. Well done I really hope it goes well and as long as the dog is wearing a muzzle I see no reason not to treat it like any other dog. If you are certain it is unable to injure another dog with the muzzle then what is the harm?. Well done

Original poster

minimu1 · 05/03/2011 12:23

He is being kept busy and is great with people.

I do agility training with him on a one to one basis and also obedience again one to one. He is great quick to learn remembers well and very willing to please.

Unfortunately this at the moment goes out of the window if he even smells another dog. I work in a walled orchard and if he smells a dog outside the orchard he loses it! I have never had a dog quite so reactive. At the moment he is having a lot of down time to stay relaxed and chilled but lots of thinking work to tire him out.

I have decided at the moment to avoid all interaction with other dogs to see if I can get his stress levels right down. That is a problem at home with my other guys but we have rigged it up where he can be on his own away from them.

OP posts:

magnolia74 · 05/03/2011 14:26

Sounds like you have your hands full

We sadly had to rehome our non dog aggresive dog as it was too stressful trying to keep them apart

Ours is a springer cross and needs lots of brain work which in my opinion is as important as physical excersise in some breeds.

We too are keeping any contact with dogs to an absolute minimum and are now clicker training which is hard on my brain let alone hers

Good luck minimu1 He is lucky to have you....

midori1999 · 05/03/2011 16:22

I'm not sure if everyone on this thread is aware, but Minimu is actually an experienced behaviourist herself and very experienced with collies, so this dog couldn't be in better hands really.

Good luck with him Minimu, hopefully with time and the right handling he'll come round and you'll eventually be able to find him a nice home. IIRC he is pretty good with your own dogs anyway? Good luck with him!

Original poster

minimu1 · 05/03/2011 17:07

With dogs though Midori you are only as experienced as the last dog you worked with! Each time I meet a new dog and new problem I am back to the beginning feeling like a newbie and just working it all through again, although I do have cases to remind me when it gets tough things can be changed. I just have to remember that at all times!!!

OP posts:

midori1999 · 05/03/2011 17:26

Of course, but you're not the MN dog training guru for nothing...

Good luck with him!

elmofan · 05/03/2011 17:47

Good luck with this BC minimu1 , i just wanted to come on here to say thanks as you helped me out recently with some behavior problems we were having with our 10 month old springer .

Eleison · 05/03/2011 21:32

Good luck.

Do you think his aggression is the result of fear, mostly, or something else?

MotherJack · 06/03/2011 16:18

Eleison, your previous question hasn't been answered. If I were you, I would start a whole new thread in The Doghouse on the particular issues you are experiencing.

I bet you'll get some assistance, but people may be reluctant to detract from the topic of this thread.

Eleison · 06/03/2011 17:28

Thanks MJ. I've started a thread here. I was being a bit too hijacky: tempted into it by seeing so many knowledgable posters here.

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