anti bark collars

[curlywurl]

Don't tell me off I know we should train them instead but with 2 very small children it's not going to happen at the moment!

Even with long walks our dogs still bark when let out in the garden and we've had complaints.

Has anyone used a collar and did it help?

By training, this does not mean that you have to spend hours each day doing it. Just a couple of minutes when you let them out would be manageable with young kids?

I found this:

First, teach your dog that barking is okay until he is told to "Be quiet." Each time your dog barks, command him to "Be quiet." Simultaneously, hold a treat in front of your dog's nose. Most dogs get quiet immediately because they can't sniff and lick the treat while barking at the same time.

Praise your dog continuously during his quiet time with petting and words of encouragement.

After three seconds of no barking, let him have the treat. As you continue with your training, increase the amount of time you require him to be quiet before giving the treat.

PS I don't know anything about anti-bark collars, but I think you might get told off by someone who does!

I think they would be quiet if i was out there with them.

We have just moved and have a bigger garden.I'd love to be able to let them stay out and snuffle and enjoy it. At the moment it's 2 mins for them to have a wee then they bark and have to be called back in it just seems unfair to them

Have you gone out to check they stop barking when you are there?

Hopefully Minimu or one of the other experienced ladies will pop their heads on to the thread and give opinion on the collars/ideas for training.

I'll leave training advice to the experts - I'm sure Minimu will be along soon, she's an experienced trainer.

I'll just tell you this - rescue is seeing a lot of dogs being handed in by families who think shock collars are a good idea... until the dog reacts badly to the things and the owners can't cope.

There's one such in the rescue I help out at at the moment, who is on the long road to rehabilitation. He will bite when he sees someone with a mobile phone or TV remote because he thinks it's a shock collar control. He's bloody lucky to be alive, most rescues wouldn't take him and would tell the owners to have him put to sleep... and most owners would do just that.

Is that what you want?

You can easily train dogs despite having two small children. I've been a (minimum of two) dog owning lone parent since DD2 was 7 weeks old and DD2 was 19 months old, and although I rescue I'm no expert when it comes to training.

Minimu will, I'm sure, put you on the road to success without needing to revert to potentially dangerous or cruel methods.

It was the ultrasonic devices I was thinking of not the shock ones that does seem cruel.

It seems that you can get an ultrasonic collar or fit a box to a house/fence that covers a 15m area and emits high frequency sound in response to a bark.

But any training ideas gratefully received.

If I tell them to be quiet they will but will continue as soon as I've gone and I can't stay out in the garden for long and leave the baby and toddler alone.

Presumably even the ultrasonic ones hurt the dogs ears or cause them discomfort?

Why are you leaving them in the garden on their own for long periods, that doesn't seem right. My dog would probably bark (or whine or howl) if I shut him out in the garden on his own. If DP shut me out in the garden I'd probably start shouting and banging on the door!

Do they bark even when left in the house alone, or in a different room, i.e. separation anxiety? Our dog had this problem after rehoming, and it was a case of very slowly building up the time alone so he felt comfortable with it. Also if you've just moved they might be feeling a bit confused/insecure, not knowing where they are and what's going on?

Personally I would not use one for several reasons.

Apart from the cruelty issues in a multi dog household they are pretty useless if one dog barks both collars will go off so the dogs have no idea what they are being punished for. Dog 1 barks and dog 1 and dog 2 get a response from the collar. Dog 2 is very confused and has no idea why.

The dogs that do not care about the discomfort from the collar will be quiet for a day or so and then just bark regardless again. Some even learn to bark beneath the range that sets off the response from the collar.

Those that are frightened by the collar will always give you an alternative behaviour eg digging up the lawn as they are stressed or weeing in the house as they are scared to go outside because of the response from the collar. So a wasted £60.00 usually.

What you can do though is confine the dog to a smaller area of the garden. (Ironic I know) however some dogs just find a large space on their own quite exciting/scary/boring so can bark to relieve their emotions. Collies may just start runinng up and down the length of the fence for example - a bit like a stressed polar bear in the zoo.

If they have a smaller space they can feel more relaxed and less barking. Put them in the small space with something to do eg a big marrow bone to chew and a long line on them. The second they bark go outside say nothing and bring them in on the line. The go outside and remove the bone.

Do this several times a day, week etc and they will soon learn bark means come in. As they get more relaxed in the smaller bit of garden you can gradually increase the space they can have. If you are all out in the garden then obviously they can go in the whole garden.

It will take a bit of effort but you will then have the rest of the dogs life in silence

Obviously if the dog has a bone it may be necessary to have only one outside at a time - that will depend on your dogs and their relationship to each other,

The other thing you can do is to feed them outside but just scattering their food on the ground to keep them busy again best to do one at a time.

Thanks, I can predict what each dog would do the female would wet her self and the ale would probably just carry on. I knew it couldn't be that simple a solution!

Interesting remark about restricting the space, the male does bark more and become more territorial in larger space. We used to have only a small back yard and he wasn't too bad but at my parents house where there is a really big yard/garden he barks loads.

I have always felt bad that they get very little off lead time to run and do what they want. Neither are good off the lead.....

The female goes to the biggest dog she can and yaps until it tries to eat her (she was used to breed from and the breeder didn't want her anymore so had 3-4 yrs in a kennel/run beofre she came to us so probably has some issues)

The male has never been reliable at recall, had him from a puppy and tried everything including clicker training with a bag of hot sausages on an empty stomach but no luck and he is very greedy! So he is walked on a lond extendable lead unless we are somewhere well away from roads, rails, sheep and fast moving water which isn't often.

I was looking forward to having a big garden so they could have freedom but may have to try restricting them now!

Sorry writing one bit at a time as i just typed loads then pressed something and lost it.

Feeding outside by scattering might be good for the male he is a hoover around food and it lasts 30 secs in his bowl. That would turn his meals into more of an activity and give the smaller female chance to eat hers without him hovering over her!

Any more suggestions anyone?

I use one for my spaniel when I go out...

If he is left to bark he winds himself up and with the collar on he's a lot happier.

I bought one from amazon that you fill with citronella. It essentially sprayed him twice and after that just having it on is enough to stop him barking. It was like magic.

Hope that helps!!

And it works on vibrations so another dog barking doesn't set it off.

I wore it myself to check the cruelty factor and it wasn't so bad... Lol!

Is he happier without it on or is he just shut down? eg. Hates it so much he doesn't dare react at all, so just lays quietly.

I just can't see how a dog that is unahppy being left alone and so barks and 'winds himself up' is somehow happier wearing a collar that squirts him with citronella when he barks. (his way of dealing with the stress of being left alone).

Happier.

He doesn't get stressed out by barking, he sleeps / drinks his water / chews his bear.

When I get home if he hasn't had it on he's created a lake of saliva from barking and is shaking like a leaf.

I love the collar - it's amazing.

I'm not suprised you love it, it's very convenient for you.

The point is, dogs that bark/make a fuss when they are left alone are not doing it because they are happy, they are doing it because there is a problem. All the collar has done is top the barking, it hasn't dealt with the reason your dog doesn't like being left alone, it doesn't mean your dog isn't stressed out and it certainly doesn't mean he is happy.

It's a bit like putting me in a room full of spiders. I am terrified of them and would probably react by screaming very loudly and panicking. If someone punched me in the face every time I reacted to the spiders, I'd probably (quite quickly too!) learn to keep quiet and stop reacting to the spiders. It wouldn't mean I wasn't still terrified though, it would just mean I'd learnt what would happen if I made a fuss and to keep quiet. Same scenarios with dogs that are scared of or unhappy about things (including being left alone) and are made to wear anti bark collars. They simply learn not to react.

I would agree with midori - I'm not by any means an expert in dog training so maybe someone will correct me, but it seems obvious to me that if a dog is doing a certain behaviour (e.g. barking) in response to being scared or lonely or unhappy (which is often the case with a dog left alone) then punishing them is surely only going to make things worse and make a situation they already don't like even more unpleasant for them.

I mean, if you had a child who made a fuss when left in their own bed at night, would you put a collar on them to squirt them or make an ear-spitting noise every time they cry? Or does that sound cruel and counter-productive?

I was posting in response to the OP who wanted to know about bark collars. I do not in any way need advice about my dog. My dog is happier when we're out with it on. When we come back he's calm and wagging his tail with obvious evidence that he's drank / eaten / played.

If we go out and he doesn't have it on, he's unhappy. He got sprayed about twice... He has now learnt not to bark. He is not cowering in terror of it. He quite happily has it put on.

My DH works from home and I am on maternity leave... He's hardly ever home alone and comes with us everywhere but Tesco's. He even comes to the pub with us.

I know my dog. You don't.

Sometimes I even forget to take it off him when I get home... As he is so okay about having it on.

And Ephiny... The whole 'my dog is hardly ever alone' bit?

That was true and for you.

Jeez... Try to answer someones questions!!? This isn't AIBU.

Sorry, wasn't implying anything about whether you personally leave your dog alone or not, was thinking more about the OP, and that often people consider using these collars when they have to go out e.g. to work and leave the dog alone in the house.

If your dog really is happy and the collar works for him then fine, you know him best. What I'm trying to say more generally is that I wouldn't use punishments for a fear/anxiety based behaviour as I don't think it's right or helpful.