Desperately need some help with recall

[DaisySteiner]

I've got a 15 month old Westie/Schnauzer cross who up until the last month or two has been pretty good at recall. Occasionally if he got wet and overexcited at the end of a long walk he would go bonkers and just run around like a mad thing and would tear off in the opposite direction if he thought I wanted to put him on the lead. In the last week things have deteriorated badly and he has run off two or three times, once I really thought he'd gone for good, I couldn't see him anywhere when he suddenly turned up behind me. Then this mornign I spent about 30 minutes trying to catch him in some undergrowth with him totally refusing to come anywhere near me.

I always take treats out with me, I call him back frequently and treat him, but he just seems to get to a stage where he's so overexcited (often seems to coincide with getting wet) that he just ignores me. I can walk off and ignore him and he just doesn't care, he's so engrossed in ferreting around in a ditch.

Aaaaah!! I'm so stressed out and upset by this. I don't think I can let him off the lead at all at the moment, which is a tragedy because he loves his off-lead walks. We've done clicker training in the past which I liked and would happily try again, just not sure how to go about it. Please someone help because I love my little dog, but after this morning's escapade which left me filthy, tired, muddy, behind schedule and with a splitting headache I'm starting to hate him

... it's the same principle that shepherds use for training sheepdogs. You don't see them dashing across a field to give their Collie a bit of cheese or play tuggie; the Collie wants to herd (which after all is only modified chase/prey drive), and the release command, and subsequent return to herding, is the reward for the dog lying down on command.

LOL @ shepherds dashing around with bits of cheese. Will try that too, good idea.

Has anyone suggested teaching a really reliable, emergency "Down" yet?

Bane. Of. My. Life.
My dog's a plank... an adorable, eager to please plank, but a plank nonetheless.

Whenever we try to do the teaching down at a distance thing... he happily looks at me, mentally processes what I'm asking him to do in the vacant space between his ears (surprised you don't get a musty burning smell at this bit) and trotts right back up to me, tail wagging, positioning himself 2mm from my front foot before going down... JUST to make sure I can see he's done what he's been asked!

Full marks for effort, full marks for completely missing the point!

He's also a wimp who won't sit and hovers his butt just off the ground with a pained look on his face when it's wet!

I teach all distant commands the same way first make sure that the dog is happy with the commands close to you.

Then throw titbits away from you so the dog goes to eat them and keep throwing then so the dog is away from you if you do it long enough the dog will stay in the distance position and look at you for the next treat - then you can ask for the down or sit etc. Slightly move towards the dog at first to prevent them coming to you.

Another command to use rather than a recall is "this way". It literally means let change direction so dogs tend to do this more readily than a specific recall.

So call this way and quickly turn direction the dog tends to follow

Emptyshell that isn't a sign of plankdom - it's an example of dogs not generalising very well :)

To him, "Down" means a situation as much as it means a position and 99% of dogs would do the same as he does unless trained otherwise.

I taught my dog the distance down by teaching her to go to a target and lie down.

Do you use a clicker at all? It's vastly easier if you do.

I used one of those plastic lid things for keeping beans/pet food fresh. Clicked/treated for any sort of interest. When she was reliably going away from me to it, I moved closer to it again and started asking her to "down" on/next to it. Then gradually moved away so again, she had to move away from me and lie down on it.

If your dog is really reluctant to leave you, you can always put a treat ON the marker, then click a split second before he eats it. He's still getting his treat. And then graduate to putting the treat UNDER the marker.... then graduate to no treat on the marker, but C/Ting for going to it.

When that became reliable, I started adding a "Down" cue at the moment she lay down. Say the cue too early, and "Down" comes to mean "Lie down in 3 steps' time. You want it to mean "Lie down NOW".

When it's really reliable in the house, move to the garden etc, then the local field etc, in the same way you'd proof anything else.

Gradually ask for more duration, so he has to stay down for longer before click/treat/release.

Some people gradually make the marker smaller but TBH I found that the "Down" cue became so ingrained that before long she just hit the floor when she heard it, regardless of whether she was on a marker.

It doesn't take that long, especially if, as I said, you use a clicker. It sounds more complicated than it is! Then it's just a case of practise, practise, practise. As with the recall command, try not to ask for a down unless you're 99.9% sure it's going to be obeyed. Eventually you should find it's SO ingrained that they almost can't NOT obey!

Yep - "This way" is very effective. In fact it can be more effective than an actual recall command and I've often wondered why.

I think it's a combination of several things; they don't like the idea of being away from you/losing you but more importantly, I think it's one of those commands that you tend to be more consistent with. You're unlikely to say "This way" unless you genuinely ARE changing direction, so they tend to be very tuned in to that particular cue.

Yeah mine's clicker trained - only had him about 2 months so he's done fantastically really for a rescue slightly older chap.

He isn't ever going to win Mastermind though - he's a sweetie and utterly hilarious with it, but not the sharpest! We're getting there - my number 1 priority was to teach recall and that's 99% reliable in places like the park, and about 85% reliable in the woods now (squirrel related incidents counting for the missing 14%), and for a guy whose name wasn't even known when he was in rescue at Christmas - that's pretty good going... especially when the anti-Heinz57varieties of dog snobs who sneer at him being rough around the edges, usually with a beard full of slobber in the park can't recall their dogs and he comes straight back and sits beside me :D (Gawd that made me feel great considering how much they sneer because he's not a "breed"!)

I use "this way" sometimes as a "softer" recall when we're changing direction (kind of a stick near us and we're heading off in this direction so don't you get lost), also have a walk "close" command we're working on for when I want him to be a more velcro doggie, with "come" and the whistle reserved for "get your furry little rear here asap, and no that doesn't mean you've got time to sniff at three trees on the way back matey".

I tend to pre-empt situations I know he's about to lose the plot on a bit and either have him looking at me, or pop the lead back on for a minute or so - trying not to make the lead coming out=end of walkies=run for the hilllllllls association!