Struggling with retrieve

[weimy]

Hi any one got any tips about getting a 9 month old to bring a dummy back? In the house she brings stuff back fine and holds it untill I ask her to give but out doors she drops it before she gets back to me and gives up after two goes.

Are you talking about a toddler or a dog?
Treat when she brings things back outdoors. Other than this I have no idea!

I know I teach this differently to the gun dog guys but to me you have to teach a hold before you can do get the retrieve sorted.

Get the dog to hold the dummy and say hold when the dog has it firmly in its mouth. The trouble here is that your timing has to be great if you speak some dogs will drop the dummy. If you reward of course some dogs will drop the dummy so timing is everything here.

Also teach the give command which obviously means to give the object this can be done with rewards (I know some gun dog people do it without)

Then you can take it up a step and just get the dog to hold the dummy while you take a few steps and then give - not in the traditional retrieve situation but just to get the dog used to moving around with the dummy. Increase the number of steps then move up to a more traditional retrieve. If he does drop it shorten the distance you are asking him to retrieve

Thanks guys!

mini thats a really good point about hold I will def give that a go

:)

I used a clicker and shaped it.

I clicked/treated for approaching the DB, then gradually witheld the C/T until she nose bumped it, then held out for a tooth bump, then grabbing it, then holding it for longer and longer etc so that she understood she wasn't to drop it until given the cue.

She already knew a formal recall and present, so it was a case of putting the two together.

Thanks! She seems to be doing well and is finally bringing the dummy all the way back, she is even doing to a whistle :)

Kate how do you shape a beautiful formal retrieve and present please?

So far I have

sit at almost sort of heel position (not sure if that is what it is called)

wait for cue to retrieve

retrieve and runnning back running back....and waheeeey running past....ruunning round bouncy bouncy waggy tail, dropping ball, picking ball up, look at MEEEE I have the ball, I am SO CLEVER I am a GENIUS dog here with this ball hurrah!... *

and sit

and drop on the floor or sometimes I'll give it back into your hands

and lovely back round to heel

mmmm

where do I start then?

• If clicker and treats are revealed at this stage in the proceedings then ball is gobbed out on the floor and beautiful sit is forthcoming whether I want one or not

LOL it's like they celebrate, isn't it?

"I'm so CLEVER!!"

Do you have a present from recall?

PS - I wouldn't use a ball, for a start. It's probably too linked in his mind with fun fun fun. Do you have a dumb bell?

I think you need to teach the retrieve as a formal exercise - once they've twigged that "Hold" is a totally different command to "Fetch!" or "Get it!" they should stop celebrating/playing with the retrieve article.

I started with a paint roller x

Can't seem to get the sit and present, she stands gives and then sits.

Do I have a present from recall....? mmm. No, not really, not outdoors anyway. I trained 'drop' before I really thought about what I wanted (not really sure what I am doing tbh, just having fun and getting the dog to engage brain a bit while out and about rather than just hooning around) so, no, items that have been retrieved are mostly dropped somewhere near me.

Indoors she will hold whatever in her mouth until either I take it or she shoves it in my groin.

it's a bit of a mess really.

A dumbell? What you mean like a dummy? I'm a bit worried about getting one as a) can you fit one in your pocket and b) will people think I am doing serious and proper training and then watch and judge when it all looks a bit bobbins?

Sorry for butting in weimy, hope you don't mind the hijack.

Paint roller sounds good

lol no prob at all :)

I use a 1/2 lb dummy with the pup, it is not really big fits in my pocket.

Is present from recall when you send them for it they get it come back and give it to you? If it is then she now does it (mostly) and I'm starting to use a whistle.

Can't get her or the other one to sit and present tho :(

Where did you get it from weimy?

I taught the present first (rightly or wrongly - methods abound for teaching retrieve, unsurprisingly).

Easiest to teach sitting down, to start with.

Sit on a chair, near the edge, so that your bum is sort of hanging over a bit. The dog needs to be able to get right between your legs.

Treat to dog's nose, held in thumb and forefinger of BOTH hands, entice him to follow it and draw him in towards you as close as possible. Gradually withold the treat so that he has to come closer and closer to you before it's released.

When he's getting the idea, you can lose the chair and lean back against a wall - start off at an angle so it's not so different from sitting in a chair, gradually becoming more upright. Once he's got the idea of coming in really close, head up, between your legs, in the middle and straight, introduce a "sit".

Once you've got all THAT, only then introduce the word "come" (or "fore" or whatever).

So, again, it's totally different from a normal recall.

Once he's got the idea, you should find that if you call "come" when he's got a dumbbell (or whatever) in his mouth, he'll automatically come into present, and if you've taught the "hold" correctly, he won't drop it until you ask him :)

Oh, forgot to say - your hands, with treat (and later on, without) will be pointed downwards towards your crotch, sort of forming an arrow to guide the dog into position.

Oh, and (sorry lol) one of the reasons I like using a clicker and shaping the "hold" so much, is that you will start off with the dog holding the article for a FRACTION of a second and build up the time in tiny increments - using this method, dogs tend not to get into the habit of mouthing the article.

Believe me I'm no expert (we're just starting out in competition - done 2 so far) but one thing I will say is that my dog has NEVER mouthed a retrieve article - even if I send her after different things.

BTW - I didn't take a dumbbell out in public (I do a bit of training on the local field) until I was fairly sure she wasn't going to make me look a prat

You can get various size dumbbells (they're bright orange) from PAH. I look at my dog's first tiny dumbbell with the sort of misty eyes usually reserved for baby's first bootees

Ok so with the come or fore cue, you do that without the dog holding something in it's mouth first?

slubber ebay is really good for dog training stuff.

mine mouth retrieval stuff, is there any way to stop that?

Yes Slubber. I did. Because in Competitive Obedience, you need to do a recall (leave the dog, halt, turn and face dog, call dog, dog comes into present position, straight and central, then send dog to heel position).

I'd say go back to basics Weimy. Do you use a clicker? As outlined above, I'd start off just asking the dog to hold the article for half a second, then working up REALLY gradually so that it never occurs to them to mouth.

But if you're talking training gundogs, ignore me because I wouldn't have the first clue about training gundogs!

Calamity I am trying to do the gun dog thing but they are def not supposed to mouth so I will try that. TBH it is the older girl that mouths more.

Do you use a clicker?

If so, it makes things far easier. They do need to understand that the click ends the behaviour though - ie when they hear the click, they immediately release the article in expectation of the treat.

You'll probably be surprised how quickly you progress - I always think these things sound as if they take forever but they don't, really - especially if you do the odd few mins here and there. While you're waiting for the kettle to boil and so on :)

Kate, are you self taught, or did you go to classes or are you a professional?

Is obedience fun?

I'm trying to decide what if anything 'extra' to do with my dog. The gun dog training thing seems like the obvious avenue but I'm so put off by the gun dog training books.

I'm not a professional - I am a very enthusiastic and reasonably experienced amateur

I do go to a Competitive Obedience class which is brilliant, but I also read and read and read about various methods of teaching stuff, and then practise on my own dogs.
I'm what you might call evangelical about clicker training. It's just that my dog HATES any sort of hands-on training - even the mildest "That's where I want you" physical help makes her sulk as if she's been beaten - and the difference between an exercise/trick/behaviour that's been taught with a clicker and one taught "traditionally" is phenomenal.

I think obedience is great fun, yes. It depends what sort of thing you like. It's not as obviously "Whoohoo" fun as say, Agility or Flyball, inasmuch as a dog doing Obedience isn't rushing about barking madly - which is what I think puts some people off. But the training is massively reward/fun based, even if the exercises themselves look very serious.

I like it :)