Got a ticking off by another lab owner today :(

[Avantia]

Have a 7 month old pure lab - good breeding background , parents both working stock.

She is a very friendly bouncy puppy as you can imagine with a lab and we have one problem that I am trying to deal with .

She can spot another dog 100yards away and will gallop off to play - after a play and run around she comes back so that part is not a problem. I just dont want her to run off like that.

So to overcome the running off I am trying to make it that it is more fun and rewarding to be with me than other dogs at times. ( I have no problem with her playing with other dogs - its just the running off).

So I have introduced a ball to throw to try and distract her and titbits rewards when she brings it back etc.

Today out with her and got a 'telling off' by another lab owner that I shouldn't be using a ball with such a young dog becuase of hip problems . Apparently she wanted to breed from her dog but didn't pass hip score and vet said it was because of ball chasing etc .

Anyway whether its a ball or other dog my pup is going to run after it. I appreciate the advice but felt a bit put out and I really didn't explain my reasoning behind as I should have. I dont want to breed from her and am aware of hip problems and too much execercise with young labs .

What do I do ? How do working young labs overcome this problem with running over fields picking up game ?

I was made to feel an irresponsible dog owner which I am not.

I keep a tube of Primula cheese spread in my pocket for emergency distraction and just squeeze a tiny bit out the end. My 5 month lab will happily ignore crowds of children, other dogs etc for the chance of a lick.

oooh top tip aspergillus. I have been using cheese strings (nicely individually packaged to prevent coat pocket - cheese interface).

I might opt for the cheese spread

Did we come to a conclusion on how much is too much?

That's a good tip about the Primula but I just KNOW I wouldn't put the lid back properly and consequently end up with a pocket full of squidgy cheese.

Still, it would go with the crumbs of kibble, chicken treats, bits of liver and Cheddar I suppose.

Can someone enlighten me please? I wandered onto this thread put of idle curiosity and am ignorant but intrigued. I'd have thought that the reason why a condition would bar a dog from pedigree breeding would be that it was hereditary. How can a condition be both brought on by overwork as a puppy and hereditary? It sounds needlessly Lamarckian - or is it simply the case that loads of labradors have this genetic flaw, but if you don't overwork them then it will remain invisible and the Powers That Be won't pull you up on it?

Genuinely interested here.

Dilys (and anyone interested) - Hip problems are a combination of two factors, the inherited tendancy for poor hip confirmation and then the environmental (ie exercise) component. You can take a dog with bad genetics for its hips and minimise the impact of that by being ultra careful for the first 18 months. You can take a dog with good hip genetics and absolutely ruin the hips by madly over exercising during that time.

I tend to advise owner to allow their pups to exercise "to their own level" as they are growing up. That means when you take them out they can run about if they choose to do so within reason, but not to throw toys and actively encourage them to run about more and more. There is nothing wrong with a dog playing with others for a short time, but if you are meeting lots and lots of dogs then common sense says take a shorter walk so you meet less dogs and less running around. Around 5 mins per month of age twice a day is a reasonable rule to follow for most breeds, but take each individual into consideration. A longer walk on the lead would do less potential damage compared to a shorter walk that is all running around - specific advice for helping dogs with hip dysplasia is actually to exercise them 4x a day but only for short times and only on the lead to help build muscles, but not over strain the joints.

Back to the original post - I doubt your ball activities have done any serious harm if they are only being used for a small distraction now and again. It would be worth working hard on the recall "come" command with her simply for the reward of a small treat so that she will come to you in preference to another dog immediately when you get it good - then you can phase the ball "reward" out. Consider how many dogs she can play with on each walk given her still relatively young age and once she has met that number and had a couple of minutes with each then keep her on the lead past others should you meet them before letting her off again to continue the walk.

Can you use a ball on a string so that the game can be less chasing but also tuggy? So one chase to get the ball and then a great game of tuggy (also gets the dogs more into the idea that the fun comes from you rather than the chase)

Dogs that are rewarded by toys are usually more keen than food rewarded dogs as their reward lasts longer! So I do try to develop a way of rewarding a dog by toys so great you have got this already.

Also can you teach the dog to catch the ball from a distance so the dog does not need to chase and turn but just watches the ball and then catches it - this works for many dogs and also increases their reaction time. Some dogs need to be taught how to do this others do it naturally nearly all learn to love it. Saying that I do have a lab that shuts his eyes if he sees something coming towards him!

Hi minimu
I have a question about the 'catch' game - we started trying to teach our labx to catch, but read somewhere that we shouldn't until they're much older (currently 6months) because it can knock out/loosen puppy or newly growing teeth.
He'll go nuts for a game of tug and teeth clearly fall out sometimes playing that (usually on the cream rug I play tuggy with him on to protech his legs.... nice!), but I wondered if the rules was no catch because it could be a choking hazard?

Thanks beautifulgirls, that makes sense, but I still don't understand why that would make any difference to breedability - surely a dog with should be equally breedable (or not) regardless of whether or not they themselves had suffered from poor exercise choices as a puppy.

Hi Dilys, my understanding is it's because you don't know about their hip scores until they are X-rayed when grown (a year or so).
So if you had a dog with exemplary hip scored parents, but poor scores themselves, you wouldn't know if it was a genetic anomaly or caused by over-exercise, so you can't risk passing it on to another generation.

OK, I guess that makes sense; since they can't measure the genetics directly they have to go with the only information they have which is indicative even though it has a lot of false positives and negatives. Thanks.

20andMerkin well you have got a choice of what you play catch with!

The best are the hol ee rubber balls as they are soft and of course will not damage teeth and are not a choking hazard. Also squish up to fit into a pocket. You can also put a squeaky toy inside for added value!

hol ee ball

30andMerkin sorry not 20andMerkin cold fingers on iphone!

20andMerkin... I wish

Squishy balls sound like a good idea. I just have visions of my very stupid dog attempting to catch everything once he works out it's a good game!

I work my 3 labs and if you have a working bred dog, perhaps you'd consider doing some gundog training with them even if you never intend to work on a shooting field?

It will harness their natural instincts beautifully, you will end up with a perfectly behaved dog who you can control at a massive distance and is huge fun for both of you.

Formal training usually starts at about 6 months so you're in the right age range - and is mostly about teaching steadiness at the beginning. Useful, portable gundog skills include being able to recall your dog from anything with a whistle command, to know your dog won't race off after something unless you tell it to, and that you can tell the dog to stop, sit and look at you for further instructions from miles away with a single blast of a whistle.

A dog is unlikely to be taken shooting much before it's eighteen months/two years old - they're just too young and 'hot' before that. I've seen many dogs ruined by going out too young - not physically, but training wise.

With regard to health scores in working dogs, I can't recall anyone I've ever heard of breeding gundogs without health testing. All the dogs I've ever heard of who compete in field trials, working tests or just work picking up on shoots have health scores for everything available. Hips, eyes and elbows - all scored. I'm sure there must be some who don't, but they're not the majority. It's so important to only buy a scored dog from a knowledgeable, caring breeder.

Thanks for all your replies and suggestions.

I must admit the thought of having her on a lead when she would usually be off fills me with fear - the fear of my arm being wrench out of its socket when she sees another dog !

All good fun this dog training !

Will re think my dog walking .

daisy any tips on how one goes about starting gundog training? I started whistle training but I obviously didn't get it right as he started ignoring it recently..

There's a club where I live, but I'd always assumed it's for terribly well trained dogs who actually work, rather than reprobate puppies! Would it be a good idea to approach them or look for a one-to-one trainer instead?

I'd do both tbh.

Ring the club and see if you like the sound of them to start with, and if you don't ask the membership secretary if there's someone she can recommend for some one on one training for a beginner.

They'll usually fall over themselves to help.

And remember ALL the well trained dogs spent quite a long time as reprobate puppies before they got the hang of life. Everyone starts out with a nutty puppy. I've got one at the moment .