Advice Needed....Dog Jumping up and face biting

[looplou]

I've not seen this in a dog before....we took on a rescue dog before Christmas, very good shelter and tbh he is a good dog. He is 2 years old, definitely a hound (although no idea what type) very lively, bouncy and active. Has had 6 homes and I am determined that we are going to be his last. He has within the last few days picked up an unnerving habit during play of jumping up and trying to bite mine or mine husbands face (thankfully not the children's) He mouths anyway (he is an overgrown puppy I think) but the attempted face biting is a bit strange.
Has anyone seen this or knows where it may stem from with a view to training it out of him (he was very sorry for himself when I told him off)

My pup bites at my older dog's face when he is trying to initiate a romping play session. Maybe it is puppy behaviour that he has never learnt to stop?

Turn your back on the dog and stand still with your arms crossed.

When the dog has all four feet on the ground calmly praise.

No point in telling the dog off as they are already excited and telling them off will just fuel their excitement.

Make sure everyone does this every time the dog jumps up and it will soon learn that to get attention it needs all four feet calmly on the ground.

You mention that he does this during play - I would certainly change the way that I played with him to ensure that he does not do the jumping up behaviour. It is early days and he has not been with you long so I would be taking things very slowly calmly for a while yet

I agree with minimu, but wanted to know what it was you were playing with him and what position your hands were in (if you can recall) when he was jumping and nipping.

also ... any pictures of your lovely rescue?

Thanks for wonderful advice everyone.

HI Jax, I can remember where my hands were, just at my chest - does that have any relevance?

Am adding some piccies at the moment have some great ones of him in the snow

Why do you have a dog that tries to bite people's faces when you have children...?
Seriously.

Rehoming a needy dog is admirable and very sweet but there's a very good, sensible reason why this dog has gone through SIX homes.

If he's a hound he's fairly large?
So is going to be capable of doing damage even if it wasn't intended.
Can you really trust that animal? Really?

However sweet he might be i'm inclined to suggest priorities and buy your children a small puppy instead and start from scratch.

Not putting myself in a good light here i know, I do love dogs and we are forever 'rescuing' critters but that is one animal i would most definately send trotting back to the rescue....

we had a dog that did this. We used to put our knee up at the time the dog jumped so his chest would connect with the knee and stop him jumping any higher iyswim. We would then turn our backs and walk away - ad infinitum.

When he was calm, we would then play/stroke him, whatever it was he wantd. BUT only when he was calm. We'd also only give him titbits when he was lying quietly, not when he was racing around or begging. Encouraged him to keep his distance at mealtimes, as well as reward him for calm behaviour.

It did take a while, especially at first, but whilst the leaping head height never totally stopped, it did massively reduce and he never snapped at us after the first few weeks.

We have another rescue dog now, when I got her she would be very aggressive towards men, a total nightmare if i'm honest, and had to be muzzled most of the time. She is now the kindest, calmest dog I have ever come across (except to postmen) so I would say definitely kee your hound, work with him and help him realise people can be trusted. Good luck :)

Personally I would not put my leg up as the dog just gets more excited and will start to jump up at you sideways. (as also mentioned above it does not work as dog will work even harder to jump up)

So just stand still and wait for calm behaviour and praise and reward. I promise that this will work if you are consistent

Thanks again everyone. The crossing arms and turning back is working tremendously. He was very confused at first but started to calm down almost straight away and is clearly very clever because (although in the early stages) its working.

Thanks for the reply Spanky but he has some misplaced puppy behaviour that needs to be retraced and corrected, which as far as I am concerned is perfectly possible. I would not reject a dog who can be trained out of a simple misunderstood behaviour for the sake of a little work and time (and I did mention he wasn't doing it with the children)

I just wondered if maybe your dog had 'learned' that when hands are 'up' it is a cue to jump. It happens sometimes, probably because they (dogs) are used to hands being by our sides.
Anyway, glad the turning and ignoring is working out. It usually does, dogs hate being ignored.

Well done for rescuing a dog. I think with lots of patience, love and training your dog will be a great member of your family.

I know you mentioned he wasn't doing it with the children.

But my point is when you have children you have think about their safety and just because he hasn't doesn't mean he won't.

I'm sure he doesn't mean any harm and i'm sure he could be trained out of it, all i'm saying is I think he would better suited to a home without children.

Spanky, I have to disagree that a puppy would be better than this rescue dog. A puppy may well have this particular behaviour and will have loads more besides, because a puppy is learning. It sounds to me just as though this is basically puppy behaviour that has never been trained.

We've done exactly what minimu said with our puppy to stop jumping up, nipping, pulling on our clothes etc. As soon as she does these things, playtime stops. She very quickly got the message and the only one that we are still not perfect on is jumping up (mainly because people will make a fuss of her when she jumps). "Please wait until she sits" is my mantra!

Our puppy class told us "four on the floor" and we repeat that to ourselves a lot to remind us to ignore her when she jumps/ tugs etc, until she has four paws on the floor again! It takes perseverance to ensure everyone is consistent with the dog, but it does work.

Spanky, as a breeder (therefore very well used to puppies) I can say that puppies and children are generally a really bad mix. Plus, guess what? Puppies jump up an try and bite people and even by a few months old their teeth are needle sharp and can cause pretty serious damage.

OP, it sounds like you are very sensible and completely aware of why this dog is behaving in such a way. Minimu's advice will work (as you already can see it is working) and you are obviously prepared to put the work in and end up with a lovely dog. Good luck!

I agree with spanky, it's not worth the risk, you hera to often in the news stories of kids that get their faces mauled. I would be very wary.

Thank you nowonthepill.

To Midori I think children and some adult rescue dogs are an even worse mix!

I took on a rescue dog a while back, a labrador and was assured he was safe with children and certainly seemed nice in rescue.

Said dog growled at my son in the car before attempting to bite him when he walked past him in the kitchen.

Tackle a hefty, fully grown adult labrador (or hound) or a little puppy?
I know which i would rather.

You don't know a rescue dogs history and i would far rather a child took their chances with a small puppy and got a small but nasty bite that will heal with little damage than be jumped on by a large, adult dog with a lot more strength and sustain extreme facial injuries that will scar them for life.

Its not a risk i would take.

What's wrong with dogs growling exactly?

My rescue dog growls at the children if he thinks they are going too close to him when he is resting. He now has his own 'safe spaces' that the children know they are not allowed near. EVeryone is happy.

My puppy whom I have had since she was 10 weeks old bit the neighbours child. And I do mean bit, she was out to cause damage. Luckily she was too small to do any.

My rescue dog (ex pound dog, no history, no prior assesment other than by me and my dad for 20 minutes at the pound) has never bitten a child. He growls and if they don't listen he walks away.

Plus I'd like to point out that quite a lot of rescue dogs do have full history and have lived witha family for their entire lives before coming to rescue owning to divorce, relocation, promotion, new commitments etc.

spanky, you know a 'small puppy' is going to grow into one of those adult dogs you consider so dangerous? Or do you just get rid of them when they get past the cute little puppy stage and buy a new one?

Personally I would feel happier with a dog like mine (calm sensible adult rescue dog with a known history including living happily with small children in his previous home) around children than a puppy who hasn't learned self-control and expected behaviour yet, and in any case has an unknown future adult temperament.

You're entitled to your opinion and to do what you want of course, but I do think it's a pervasive and damaging myth that rescue dogs are a dangerous 'unknown quantity', and it contributes to more good dogs being unable to find homes (which in practice often means dogs being killed) while puppy breeding is encouraged instead.

Oh boy.

Whats wrong with growling?
Did you seriously just say that

Maybe you missed the bit that said it then attempted to bite my son.

I don't consider adult dogs dangerous, i have quite a few of my own.
I never got rid of any of them when they grew up, i'm utterly perplexed as to how you came to such a ridiculous opinion Ephiny.

What i think is dangerous is to keep an adult dog whose history you don't know who likes to jump and bite people's faces when you have children.

Oh and I don't support puppy breeding Ephiny.
All my dogs were puppies from rescue centres.

Although I think its a little fruitless to continue on this thread as most of you seem to be of the opinion that a dog is more important than a child's safety and nobody should dare question why a big dog that bites is around children.
I would have thought it was pretty bloody common sense!

I'm sure that the rescue centre would not have agreed for you to take home an unsuitable dog for your circumstances. Our 2 elder dogs do not like children, and we have found that most things can be helped a lot by training (both people and dogs). I'm sure you will manage to stop your new arrival from jumping up and biting, and you will teach your children how to avoid the dog doing this. Six homes is a lot to get through in 2 years. Poor dog. I think people take on dogs without fully realising the amount of dedication and hard work involved. Is your dog neutered? I understand that dogs who are neutered before they are fully grown keep some of their puppy behaviour well into their lives.

Again, with a history of so many homes, the rescue organisation is going to be extra careful about re-homing this dog. I'm sure you will find ways to keep him. He's still pretty new to you, and probably finding his confidence. I hope you succeed with your new arrival, and have one very lucky dog!

'Whats wrong with growling?
Did you seriously just say that ' Growling is good. Growling is a dogs way of saying I am uncomfortable with this. As responsible owners it is our job to find out what is causing the dog to feel scared/defensive/pain etc and stop it from happening/show the dog it is nothing to be afraid of.

Also dogs don't 'try to bite' they either bite or they don't and when they bite they do so to cause damage anything else is a warning or a snap.

I'd much prefer a dog who feels comfortable with communicating his displeasure via a growl than one who has been taught that growling leads to punishment and so has nothing left to use but the bite.

Op - my puppy is currently at the jumping and mouthing stage. Her thing is arse biting . Unfortunately dd2's face is the same height as my backside.

She has previously been taught 'stop' (i.e. STOP fighting with Devil Dog, STOP stealing that food, STOP howling like a wolf I am about to your bowl on the floor, have a bit of patience fgs ) and 'sit' this is enough to stop her from jumping. we give her the stop command and then sit. You could try a bit of obedience training along with the four paws advice. Clicker training is the most effective way.

"Whats wrong with growling?
Did you seriously just say that

Maybe you missed the bit that said it then attempted to bite my son"

Nope, I didn't miss that bit.

Dogs growl as a way of communication, just like wagging their tails, holding their tails down, pinning their ears back, barking etc. Growling is a way of saying they don't like something or aren't comfortable in a situation, no more, no less.

Are you sggesting dogs have to be happy with every situation we put them in? That they shouldn't let us know if they aren't happy with that?

The dog growled at your child. That suggests to me that the dog either wasn't happy with your child being near to it or what your child was doing at the time. You then allowed your child to continue to be near the dog, presumably without any behaviour modification, since you think dogs shouldn't growl. Did you also tell the dog off for growling? It was your fault and your fault alone the dog was put in a position where it felt it had no option but to bite your son.

The dog in the OP is not 'biting' in the true sense of the word, it is over excited and hasn't learnt that the puppy like behaviour of jumping up and nipping is not acceptable. It needs training and I highly doubt it is dangerous. As the OP has already said, she has already seen an improvement in the dog's behaviour.

You know nothing of the situation because you weren't bloody well there!!

I can see the poor dog must have been oh so terrified when my son didn't move and said very calmly can we get out the car now mommy?
Yeah, really, really uncomfortable and traumatic that must have been.

I didn't punish it for growling actually. I was more concerned with consoling my child.

Allowed my child to be near the dog?
What i'm supposed to adopt a family pet and my children can't go near it?

The dog sat on the floor and my son walked past it. Oh what a crime.
Yes, I can really see how it must be my fault that was it was put in a position where it felt it needed to bite. Yeah.

Didn't look at it, didn't touch it, wasn't even that near it, yes, that poor dog really had no option but to lunge forward and bite.

I can accept that there must be lots of stupid people who like to let their children scream and shout and pull dogs ears and stamp on their tails and are horrified when their dogs turn.

I'm not one of them.

It was absolutely not my fault.
You speak as though because your a breeder you must know everything there is to know, but you don't.

We have dogs as family pets, and the children are absolutely NOT allowed to approach them. They have to take care when passing them, and they are not allowed to look them in the eye. We still all manage to crash around together, and the dogs growl when they're unhappy, and will snap if the situation for them becomes unbearable. If they do snap, it is ALWAYS because the children have taken no notice of either me or dh or the dog, and have continued in their behaviour. This is just my experience. It is paramount that we keep everyone safe,and frankly it doesn't bother me at all that the dogs don't especially like chilren. We need to respect that, and the it is good for the children to understand that not all dogs like small people. The dog in question here doesn't seem to have a problem with aggression, so it's a bit of a wild goose chase.

What, you have dogs that the kids are not really safe around? Why????