Basket muzzle - pros and cons? - pup eating everything

[iloverhubarbcrumble]

Lola spent Thursday at the vets on a drip, while 'something she ate' worked its way through. Luckily it came out the other end that evening - chewed up bark, a small metal connector with electrical wire inside and various pieces of grit/charcoal, all bunched up together.

She is 6 months old now, and in our small garden she spends the whole time sniffing the ground, digging, and finding something to chew or mouthe - pebble, charcoal, old bones under neighbour's fence, bamboo sticks. So much so that she does not go into the garden unsupervised. Tiring to say the least.

She gets a good walk/run twice a day in the park, and she is far more distracted so does not spend much time there eating crap. Pavement walks are almost worse because of the plastic bottle tops, bags, elastic bands, pencils - you name it...

Anyway. The vet recommended a basket muzzle. We don't like the idea much, but are seriously considering for the garden. When we first got the puppy at 9 weeks, we tried a basket muzzle for all of a day (again on the advice of a vet) as she was mouthing pebbles and stones and we were worried. Our puppy trainer came over for an hour to help us out, and the first thing she said was, please take that muzzle off. Ignore the mouthing. She won't swallow a pebble. We were relieved and have followed this advice ever since, ignoring and trying hard not to allow a game of chase to develop. Until now there hasn't been a problem. The trainer went so far as to say to us, (later), that's how you 'spoil' a pup for life, you have to allow it to mouthe things.

So - my question. Poeple will feel strongly I'm sure. But I'm mainly interested in people who have had similar dogs. Do they grow out of picking every piece of rubbish up? Of chewing stones, grit, branches?

Does a basket muzzle work as a temp solution? Is there a behavioural alternative (besides ignore, and occasionally, when it's a large metal nut in her mouth, offering a treat instead)?

Bit long this. Bit freaked out after Thursday. Could have been a op. Thanks all.

Use the muzzle for now (you will need to teach her to accept it). Dogs can die as a result of intestinal foreign bodies.

Then work on training her to chew acceptable items - provide Kongs, reinforce play with a safe raggy or frisbee for example. To an extent they grow out of chewing behaviour but some dogs persist into adulthood. If you know your dog has these tendencies, and you've already had a lucky escape, then you should use the muzzle.

Am in a very similar situation to you. No real advice, but this is our experience.

Have been both advised to muzzle, and not to muzzle, because you create a dog which will put ANYTHING in his mouth when it gets a chance.

WE had a scary rock-eating phase (have posted on here about it before), which we seem to have turned a corner on. Main things were:

• always being on lead in the garden (for toileting trips) or engaged in active play. As soon as he starts getting distracted and digging up stones, we go in.
• working on a 'leave it' growl for things he's not allowed to pick up (when lead walking or coals in sitting room etc)
• being ruthless about fishing anything he's not supposed to have out of his mouth. There was a brief phase where he got a bit flinchy about it, but fortunately he's never swallowed stuff to stop us having it back. Think this is partly tied into the next point:
• work on a good 'drop it' command, useful for tug games, fetch, etc. Gets rewarded with a treat for dropping his toy nicely. Have now got to the point when I can ask 'drop it' for stones (rarely picked up).

It seems to be a phase that he grew out of... and into his current obsession of sticks, which he chews and will swallow bits of if I give him the chance, also mown grass/clumps of mud. I do a lot of running along the park/path for short bursts to distract him! Fortunately sticks are easier to distract him from chewing and easier to ask for a 'drop it' than pebbles.

Only additional complication with ours (5.5 months) is that some of his teeth are loose, so we occasionally get a grinding noise coming from his mouth and can't tell if it's because he's picked something up or is grinding loose teeth together. If in doubt, I just go in there!

Bit of an essay, sorry!

I personally would not use a muzzle.

Problems with muzzles are that dogs can either get very frustrated and will then take out the behaviour in an even more unacceptable way, digging is a common sympton of a dog that has been muzzled, or one I had for training even learnt to knock his muzzle against flower pots and knock them off the terrace.

I would make a clear if possible enclosed area that the puppy could be in safely. We have had to remove pebbles from an area of our garden for this reason.

It is a stage and most dogs grow out of it to a degree.

I would always teach a "swap" command or "take" command. So if and when the dog has something in his mouth he should not have - don't chase the dog or ask him to drop it. Get something really high value this will depend on the dog. Then just kneel down a distance from the dog and say swap. As you do so put the yummy treat or toy on the floor. The dog will take the new treat or toy and leave the pebble etc.

Swap begins to mean to the dog a yummy treat. (do watch out for the dog not to start training you over time here - one of mine will pick up a pebble if he gets the chance and drop it at my feet waiting for the swap - bad overtraining on my part!)

I would also work hard on giving the dog something to do when he is in the garden - so his job in the garden is something different from picking up things.

Maybe stuffed kong or chew toys.

On the walks this is the one occasion I would get the dog to wear a head collar (Plus harness) You need to teach a head up command. With clicker lure the dogs head up and click and treat. When out walking the do should then learn head up and lift the head off the ground. Yep I know really really really hard to do with a gun dog but it can be done and will save you a lot of heartache.

The other thing to do is too set specific tracks for your dog to follow(If you can't beat them join them!)

So in the garden have the dog on a long lead walk away with some treats in your hand and let the dog see where you put them on the ground. Walk back exactly the same way you walked to put the treat out do this several times. Ask dog to go track and the dog should run to the treats. Keep doing this over time and make the tracks harder longer and hide the treats so the dog is searching for value rewards.

It is a tricky one but believe me it will pass.

Thanks so much for replies so far. I really appreciate this level of detail with experience and suggestions. Will take me a day or so to digest ideas. First thing I will do tomorrow is get hold of more chewing toys for swopping etc.

30andMerkin Essays to match mine appreciated! And Minimu great ideas as always, this springer spaniel is such good fun but is certainly led by her nose...

We are doing well with many aspects of training - but most definitely not all! Lots of focussed work this week.

My lab has worn a basket muzzle out on walks for most of his life (9 years) because he eats dog poo. I have tried everything and in the process trained him not to eat sticks, stones, horse, sheep and cow poo, deer innards and dead rabbits but I cannot keep him from eating dog poo. I think it must just taste good to him.... He is used to it and rarely tries to rub it off but people we meet think he must be aggressive and start hauling their dogs away which can create a bad reaction from the other dog.

He has bad skin and is frequently on steroids which make him permanently hungry, and he is a labrador. I failed on this one.

By used to "it" I mean the muzzle not the poo.

Oh and clearing up sicked up dog poo is the worst thing ever.