Have been given difficult advice (long)

[fishcakefoxtrot]

I have been having a lot of problems with my dog. He is a 6 year old rescue. We have had him for nearly 5 years. He has always been quite neurotic, the result of abandonment and poor socialisation as a puppy I think. He has pretty bad separation anxiety, is liable to worry sheep, cattle, horses etc if given the opportunity, barks at other dogs when on the lead and sometimes when off the lead. We manage these behaviours pretty well, (live in urban area, worked very hard on recall, use toys while out for entertainment/distraction, lots of exercise) but have not managed to fix them.

The biggest problem is his separation anxiety which has got much, much worse since dc was born last year. We have seen a behaviourist, who was excellent, but to be honest the strategies haven't really made any difference. We saw a very slight improvement but anytime anything out of the ordinary happened eg went to visit my mum for a couple of days we are back to square one. I can't leave him at all after about midday and he gets distressed if I go out in the morning. I don't have any family nearby and the situation of me staying in the house most of the time or only going out with the dog is unsustainable. Plus, he is just miserable. Compared to how he was pre-dc, he seems fed up.

DC is one now so this has been going on for a good while. We have been thinking of rehoming him as I can't really cope anymore. He is a mixed breed so can't go through a breed specific organisation. We have been in contact with one organisation who could put him on a waiting list to go into a foster home as there is no way he could cope with going into kennels.

However, I was talking to a family friend a while ago who has extensive experience of rehabilitating and rehoming troubled dogs. She was not able to take him and told me that the kindest thing would be to have him put down as realistically no one would take him. The shelter we rescued him from also suggested this. I don't know what to think of this advice. On paper, I know he seems very difficult- can't be left, couldn't live in a very rural area because of escape chance/livestock worrying, boisterous, needs plenty of exercise, and would generally need a lot of time and love. BUT he is a lovely dog. If I had more support and someone who I could leave him with on the odd occasion when I needed to do things I don't think I would feel as desperate. On the other hand though I can't bear the thought of him being pushed all over the place because he can't be rehomed, or is rehomed and then returned or just passed on. If that was to happen I can see that it would be much kinder for me to have him put to sleep but it would break my heart.

Realised I hadn't actually explained why I had posted this- just wondered what other people thought of the advice. And does anyone have examples of a dog and child needing a settling in period this long- basically can you reassure me that things might well still improve.

Could you say where you are? There are some no kill rescue centres around who I'm sure would give him the best chance of finding a new home if there is no way you can keep him.

Our dog is a rescue and she has separation issues but little and often seems to be helping.

Oh that is so sad .

If you are 100% you can't keep him then PTS might be the kindest option but is there really no one who could take him?

Have you re contacted the behaviourist that you had in the first place? We had a behaviourist come to our doberman/rotty. She was dumped where I worked as a vet nurse. I know when we had this service they offered a life long service a one off fee and you could call them as many times as needed. Explain about all of this and its pushing you to make a decision you really dont want to make. They might come up with something else? Other than that are there any rehoming places that deal with dogs with sep anx. You can also get a thing from the vet or pet store now I think a DAP this is supposed to help with SA. Maybe give that a try I did try it and it did work in the house.

Definately definately definately do not put down for separation anxiety.

Has he been to the vet recently. I would get a full medical check first. Many things can cause a dogs fears to grow and feeling poorly is the main one.

Once that has been ruled out and you cannot keep the dog.

You could rehome - what is a problem to you may not be a problem to anyone else. He could go to a home where people are at home all the time, he could go to a home where people have time to help him with his anxieties.

This is definately not a case to put the dog down.

Maybe Valhalla could help you on here. Can you just wait a few more days and the wonder of mumsnet maybe able to help you out

He sounds like an excellent companion to a retired person to me. I'd be loathe to put a dog down that isn't ill or vicious tbh.

Pretty much any dog will worry sheep if off lead. Can't believe you would seriously consider killing this poor dog. Dog needs a vet check first to sort out any underlying issues. How much exercise does your dog get and how much stimulation/direct play does he get from you each day? I would also consider how he behaves if he is with another dog. Some dogs find it difficult to adjust to life by themselves and become distressed but are very happy with another dog. Could you borrow a dog to see if that makes a difference to him? Would also endorse having another chat with your behaviourist, and have you considered that if you are regularly going out during the day for more than a couple of hours it might be worth hiring a dog walker on those days to take him out and keep him occupied. To me the key issue is that you say this has got worse since the baby arrived, which suggests it might be the case that he is no longer receiving as much of your time and attention. Hope you can resolve this, and I'd be astonished if any reputable rescue endorsed killing him. Sounds like there are some dodgy ones still about.

I agree that this is absolutely no reason to put the dog to sleep.

What exactly did the behaviourist suggest to deal with the problem and what have you tried, for how long etc?

I agree with a vet check and also that ALL dogs will worry livestock until trained otherwise, some might never be trained out of it. I am rural and would have no problems taking a dog that was a problem with livestock, it is easily controlled/dealt with. I am sure plenty of other people would feel the same way to.

Do you have any doggy day care near you? The one I use is only £8 per day and the dogs are looked after in the person's home and not left; this would free up a few hours for you possibly on a weekly basis?

where does he stay when you are out and how distressed does he get??

my dog behaviourist recommended a pen for when we are out. that was two years ago and although he still has issues, it makes living with him a lot easier.

he definitely benefitted from separation in his own space and goes happily into his pen now for about four five hours a day when i'm out.

Thank you for all the responses so far. I am not in any hurry to do anything, and certainly not to have him put to sleep. I am pleased to see that people don't think that is the best or only solution. It had been put to me that this was perhaps the kindest thing to do, and I was beginning to wonder if I was being unfair to him by hanging onto him when he is not happy. I would much prefer to resolve the problem and only rehome him if absolutely necessary- he has been a member of my family for 5 years. I am reassured to see that there are people that would consider giving a dog like him a home.

He is in good health. He was checked as prior to the behaviourist's visit in the summer and again recently when he had his booster jabs. The behaviourist mostly looked at making a 'safe' place for him while we are out and desensitising (sp?) him as the anticipation of being left means he is in a frenzy before we leave. He gets deeply distressed- he drools, shakes and howls. It is horrible to see and as result I don't leave him anymore than necessary and certainly not ever anytime after lunchtime as this distresses him the most. The behaviourist didn't think DAP would be a good long term solution but might help with adjustments when the routine had been broken. He thought he was too old for crate training and being enclosed might increase his anxiety. I think part of the problem is that we had a really good routine for him and he has never adjusted to the changes that the baby brought. Plus he has always been a highly strung, delicate soul.

He gets plenty of exercise off the lead. It is one of the things that has always helped him cope with stress and was one of the main tactics we used when we first brought him home.

I mentioned the livestock because this was one of the reasons he was rehomed- he had repeatedly escaped and chased sheep so part of the criteria was that he was rehomed to an urban area with secure/no garden. This is largely not a problem for us unless we come across riders who have strayed from bridle paths or cows/sheep where they are not meant to be!

Do you still have time for your dog? We had had 2 dogs for 4 years before our 1st dc was born, and 6 years before dc2. We were particularly worried about the younger dog as he was/is a bit of a nut, and his eyes nearly came out of his head when he first saw dd1. I did consult a behaviourist because I wanted to keep both dogs. DH and I made sure the dogs were involved with the rest of us. They were allowed to come up to the babies and be with us.

Separation anxiety is such a common thing. I've read about it a lot, but I'm certainly no expert. It would appear to be treatable, certainly to a tolerable extent.

Chasing livestock again, is pretty common, and the dog risks being shot by the farmer. This is not a risk most people would want to take.

You sound as though you are doing lots of things right and that you have a pretty super dog.

Thanks Silent, he is a lovely dog! I do try to make time for him, particularly in the evenings. He was never a particularly clingy dog though- I would work at home in the kitchen and he would sleep in the sitting room, despite having a bed in the kitchen but he seems quite put out by me playing with dc now. How did you get round things with your dog? Are they all quite happy now?

What do people think is a normal amount of time to be able to leave a dog? What could I hope to aim for?

As a behaviourist myself I would agree with the advice you have been given BUT you must leave him. He needs to be taught that it is ok to left on his own.

Obviously this needs to be built up, so start when you are in the house. Walk out of the room his is in and close the door of the room he is in and walk out immediately return to him and build this up until he is quite chilled when you leave him. For some dogs it may be that you actually have to go out of the front door rather than another room.

Sometimes do your going out sequence eg put your coat on get you keys but do not go out sit down and have a coffee. This way the build up to you leaving will become less of an issue.

Over time your dog should get used to being left and then you can leave him for longer periods.

I would not leave my dogs for more than 4 hours.

I really sympathise with you - a lot of what you have said chimes with my own situation (7 year old difficult rescue dog, 1 year old child!)

I would say that my dog is still adjusting to our son being around - and especially to how quickly he changes. At first I felt terribly guilty about how little time I have to spend alone with the dog - we used to go on a lot of walks just the two of us - but now walks are moslyt about my son. Hwoever, whenever I can I try to spend some "quality" time just me and the dog, and that does seem to have cheered him up.

I think the advice you've been given to put him down is extreme and unnecessary - you say you're in no rush to make a decision, so instead try building his confidence as described by minimu1 and try to achieve a balance where he feels confident that a) he's still got a place in your life and b) if you leave you'll definitely come back.

I hope it all works out for you - your dog sounds lovely

The advice you have been given in RL is not what I would call helpful, please dont have him put to sleep over this.

As the others have said, contact your behaviourist again, or another one locally to you. This situation can be helped. Time and lots of patience and consistency will pay off eventually.

Good luck