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If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

How do you make the hardest decsion for your dog? (v long)

25 replies

moosemama · 02/11/2010 10:30

My girl is 13 and a half years old. She has had a tumour in her mouth for a couple of years.

It was biopsied and debulked twice and they couldn't identify it, in fact they said they'd never seen anything like it, but could say from their analysis it was cancerous, but only of low malignancy and likely to be locally invasive, rather than metastasize.

It was also slow growing, but despite having a soft tissue component on the surface was calciferous and bony, which meant removing just the lump wasn't an option. If fact the vet said they struggled to get enough off it off to biopsy as it was so hard. To remove it would have meant her undergoing a hemi-mandibulectomy and knowing our girl as we do, taking into account her age, the fact that she is partially deaf and blind and going on past experience of her having surgery and not coping with it terribly well, we felt we could not put her through such a major op.

Until recently she has been happy enough in herself, eating well, despite the growth being in a fairly obstructive position around her left lower canine. She has been active enough for a dog of her age an carrying a nice amount of weight etc. In fact the only problem has been that her mouth smells truly awful. We have to give her a dental wash daily to try and keep it under control, but it really is the most awful thing I have ever smelled, not helped by her favourite position being under the kitchen table (not good at mealtimes at all).

After having three different opinions from various vets on how we should proceed, ranging from going for the hemi to debulking and partial jaw reduction, I took her to see a fantastic local vet who talked through all the options with me, left me to think about it for 48 hours and then discussed how to proceed.

We took the decision to give her palliative care only, for all the reasons stated earlier and he agreed that in his opinion this was probably the kindest course of action. At the time she wasn't in need of any medication, didn't seem to be in pain apart from slight stiffness in her back legs and was a happy content girl. She has needed antibiotics a couple of times when the growth has got cuaght/nicked by something and become infected, but other than that she hasn't required any treatment.

We are now a few months down the line and she is deteriorating fast. The growth has started to grow rapidly and in the last two months has gone from being half way across to encompassing all the teeth across the front of her lower jaw. Despite this, she is still managing to eat her normal amount of food, albeit a little slower than she used to.

BUT she is losing weight, despite eating the same amount and exercising less. She has also developed dark patches on her skin, which I recognise from when my own father had end stage terminal cancer. I think her eyesight has worsened, as she panics when she doesn't know where she is, so no longer enjoys going for a walk and instead prefers to pootle around the garden a few times a day. Some days she is very reluctant to get out of her bed and we have to carry her outside or she will just wee in her basket rather than going outside.

I think she may have suffered a mild stroke recently as well, as she seems unbalanced and to lean and turn to the left as she walks and she seems to spend periods of time just sitting with her head hung sort of swaying slightly, as if she's not quite 'there' iyswim. Occasionally she seems to get shivery as well. Sad

The other day when she came in from the garden, she came through the doorway, turned as she did so and walked straight into the door, then walked left again straight into the downstairs toilet where she ended up stuck between the toilet and the wall repeatedly walking forwards into the wall.

She isn't like this all the time though, just odd episodes. The rest of the time, she still seems fairly content, still eats all her food etc. That said, the episodes are becoming more and more frequent.

I really don't know what to do. I'm taking her to the vets this week, as at the very least I think she needs some pain relief for her joints and I want to be sure she isn't in any pain, but I'm thinking the vet might suggest we pts.

Thing is, it just doesn't feel right. I have had dogs for over 20 years and have always 'known' when the time was right iykwim, but with her it just doesn't feel right at all.

I am so confused. I really don't want her to suffer, but I can't get rid of this pit of the stomach feeling that to let her go now would be wrong. Obviously I am hoping they will be able to offer her some palliative treatment to make her more comfortable, but if they do suggest pts, I'm afraid I won't know what to say.

Why am I finding this so confusing? I have had to make this decision many times before and have always felt it was the right thing to do. Why can't I do it this time?

OP posts:
moosemama · 02/11/2010 11:38

Hmm Just noticed what happened to my 'known'. Please excuse poor typing. I did read it through, but didn't preview so didn't see my ^ hadn't worked. Blush

OP posts:
sharbie · 02/11/2010 11:42

I would go with my gut instinct - you know your dog best.Eating well is always a good sign so I would probably think again if she stopped eating.Sorry you are having such a horrid time.

moosemama · 02/11/2010 11:50

Thank you Sharbie. That's what I keep thinking "as long as she's still eating normally".

She's so thin though and the weightloss is really worrying me.

I feel bad for thinking it but I can't help thinking it would be for the best if she just passes in her sleep one night. Every morning I come down and put my hand on her to see if she is still breathing. Mind you, then I'd worry that she was more ill than I thought and I hadn't made her comfortable enough. I also don't know how we'd deal with that situation with the 3 dcs around.

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hatwoman · 02/11/2010 11:51

oh moosemama - I have no real advice I'm afraid but didn;t want your post to go unanswered. I have a younger dog, my first (apart from family pets as a kid), and even now I am dreading facing this kind of thing. we love them so much.

Perhaps speaking to the vet will help you clarify things. Don't rush. I hesitate to make a comparison with cats becuase I do understand that they are different - however we had a cat who behaved in the way you describe - walking into walls, confused etc. after a while it became a near permanent state of mind for her - and she was constantly distressed. It was a really hard decision to make but at that point it was the right thing. talk things through with the vet. I'm sure he/she will help.

hatwoman · 02/11/2010 11:53

I agree re the eating, and seeming content thing - they're important factors.

moosemama · 02/11/2010 12:07

Thank you hatwoman.

I agree cats and dogs are different, but the way we feel about them isn't, so thank for your sharing that with me.

I think most of the walking into walls, doors etc is due to her poor eyesight, but there have been a few occasions when it was more like she was totally confused and disorientated, more like dementia than not being able to see where she was iyswim. I think the difference is that when she can't see, she gets panicky, but on these odd occasions she doesn't seem to panic, she just seems bewildered.

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Joolyjoolyjoo · 02/11/2010 12:13

Well, I can see it from both perspectives- I am a vet and also the owner of a (pretty senile) 15yo dog!

I think people worry that a vet will take one look and automatically suggest PTS, but we are well aware that we are seeing that animal in a consulting room setting for 10 minutes, so YOUR judgement on her quality of life is usually better than ours! Based on what you are saying, she is still coping and has a reasonable QOL. You are right- you will know! Dogs tend to cope and cope and cope then suddenly deteriorate, IME.

My old boy is also thinner than he was. I don't think he even really knows who I am any more, tbh Sad. He has lost all house-training (big bone of contention between DH and I!) BUT he eats well, wags his tail when he sees the food, and trundles along merrily on his walks (with a little bit of metacam to help his old bones!) I know I will know when the time has come. Although like you (and most owners) would prefer to come down one morning to fiind he has drifted away in his sleep. Hope this helps

minimu1 · 02/11/2010 13:11

Oh so hard but I feel that if you are still having doubts and deep down don't think the time is quite right then you should just let things be.

Sometimes situations change quickly sometimes things take time. Keep an open mind and listen to you gut reaction.

Can I say just one thing not meaning to be harsh but when you say the best thing would be for her to just die in her sleep - yes it would be the best thing for you but as owners we often have to make the best decision for our pets that is the hardest for us.

You will make the right decision when the time is right you are a caring loving owner that is all our animals ask of us.

Do take care and enjoy the time you have with your girlie

moosemama · 02/11/2010 13:16

Oh Joolyjoolyho, thank you. Its so reassuring to hear from a vet who is in a similar situation. So, yes it really does help.

My old lady still wags her tail when we get her food bowl out - big step down from when she used to turn into a whirling dervish at the mere hint of food, but still a clear indication that she is happy and looking forward to it. She also wags when we take her out in the garden and she mooches around for a bit (we have a very big garden) has a bit of a snuffle then goes to sit in the crook of her favourite tree stump where the sun shines. I'm tending to think as long as she still wants to do all this she's ok for a bit longer.

I bathed her this morning, as she has a tendency to dribble on her legs when she's curled up and this makes the smell worse. I try not to do it too often, but the pong is overbearing in our small house so I have to do it maybe once a fortnight minimum. I half fill the bath with warm water to give her a bit of buoyancy and take the weight off her joints and then shower her with a warm flow and she seems to actually enjoy it these days. I guess it soothes her bones a bit. She seems to like having the shampoo massaged in now as well. Smile She always really hated bathtime when she was younger. Have had to trim her coat really short though as she really can't tolerate grooming any more, she gets really stressed by it. She's a Soft Coated Wheaten Terrier so quite a commitment grooming wise.

I got really worried after I bathed her today though as her temperature seemed very low (checked inside her ears and in her armpits) and she really struggled to warm up afterwards. I dried her with towels, padded her bed out with vet bedding, wrapped her in three towels and put the oven on to warm the kitchen quickly and she was still shivering. I've just been and changed her bedding for freshly warm tumbled vet bedding and put her fleece dog-coat on and she's warmed up a fair bit now though. I'm so relieved, as I started to think her temperature wouldn't come back up and that would be it. Sad

House training has been a bit of an issue here too, as she loses her way and goes into the bathroom and wets there. (The bathroom is off the opposite corner of the kitchen to the back porch.) She also wets in her bed most nights - my poor washine machine is on almost constantly these days - I've already done two loads of dog bedding this morning and one of my other dogs just threw up something disgusting she ate on her walk this morning in her bed, so now that's in the washing machine as well. Hmm

Should I be concerned about the black patches appearing on her skin do you think? The vet didn't seemed concerned about them last time he saw her, but there were nowhere near as many them. She has them pretty much all over now and most of them are the size of a 50 pence piece.

OP posts:
abr1de · 02/11/2010 13:21

Trust yourself. You will know when it's time. We did with both our old dogs. They each spent a very intense three-hour period sitting beside me giving me direct eye contact. Then they both wanted to go out into the garden. They sat out there for half an hour or so each time and had a good look around and sniff.

It was heartbreaking. But I knew they'd had enough and were saying farewell. One had kidney failure and one had various kinds of cancer. And they were 14 and 13 when we took them to the vet for the last visit.

Thinking of you.

moosemama · 02/11/2010 13:26

Thank you minimu1, I agree with everything you said, although if she dies in her sleep it will probably be harder for us, particularly with regard to the dcs. I just prefer to think of her falling asleep comfortable in her bed and not waking up rather than us getting to the point where we have to choose to end her life because she is suffering so much.

I have quite negative associations with my dogs being pts, as my last dog went in for an xray to check for secondaries after he collapsed at home and it took several doses of sedative to get him to settle enough for us to leave him. He got more and more distressed and agressive with every dose and the vet couldn't believe he was still standing. Once they did the xray they found he had secondaries in almost every organ, we took the decision not to bring him round, but we were allowed to go in and see him while he was still under the GA and say goodbye. He was such a powerful boy that he'd been fighting on for months showing few outward signs he was so ill. It was like he knew if he let go he'd never see us again and it still breaks my heart to think of it. I know we made the right choice for him, but it was so unbelievably painful. Didn't that my pfb was only ten days old at the time either. Sad

OP posts:
abr1de · 02/11/2010 13:33

It is very hard when you have an experience like that. My 14-month-old dog died unexpectedly under GA a few months ago and the grief was of a different order than that we felt when the old dogs were PTS. Not that we didn't mourn them deeply, but we felt they'd had good doggy lives.

arfasleep · 02/11/2010 13:40

Would agree with others, you will know when time is right and because you're not sure, then prob not time yet. We PTS our old mongrel boy about 8 years ago & still remember how he looked on the day. He couldn't/didn't want to get up, no interest in food, turned head away when we went to stroke him Sad, he'd had enough.

Also PTS my old cat last month, kept thinking each day 'will it be today', checking of signs of deterioration, decided if she could still walk, eat, be interested in surroundings & use loo (most of the time) then to just wait until severe deterioration. On her last day, she couldn't walk & lay in wee, no effort to get up. V sad.

moosemama · 02/11/2010 13:50

Thank you abr1de and arfasleep.

Dh just came home for lunch and I've sobbed all over him. Blush I don't think I'd realised how much all this was dredging up the stuff about my last dog. He was the dog for me iykwim. I have had dogs before and since but there will never be another one like him. He was only 7 when he died and I always thought we would have so much longer together.

In fact, thank you everyone again. You have helped me to see that she isn't ready to let go yet. I do remember some of our other dogs reaching the stage where they just 'told us' they'd had enough. It felt like they almost asked us to let them go, if that makes sense. I still believe that my boy hung on to meet my baby and see everything was ok before he'd let go as well.

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haggisaggis · 02/11/2010 14:32

I feel for you. We lost our dog 3 years ago - and like you we were sure for a while that although he had deteriorated badly he was still taking pleasure from our company and still had a spark. Then one morning we came down and it was so obvius that although he was still alive he was not really there at all - and the time had come.
I am now going teh same way with our 20 year old cat - she is stiff and finds walking a stuggle. She has stopped grooming so looks dreadful and is soiling the house (the place really stinks!) but she is eating and giving us attention so it is not time yet.

abr1de · 02/11/2010 15:02

Twenty-year-old cat! Wow.

pinkstarlight · 03/11/2010 11:39

sounds like your instinct is telling you it will soon be time but not yet.the most important thing is to have a good vet who you trust who will be honest with you.for me as long as my dog was still eating and not in pain and tail still wagging i would just take one day at a time.i remember when my childhood dog got very old he was 16 my parents and the vet decided it was time for him to go. they brought him home to say goodbye and was due to take him back in the morning, he died that night at home in his bed surrounded by his family 20 years later that memory still breaks my heart but i also take comfort in the fact he died at home was much loved and had a very happy life.i really feel for you xx

SecretNutellaFix · 03/11/2010 11:54

I've just found this and want to say thanks for helping me realise we have made the right decision for our lovely girl.

We had a burst of the old healthy K on Sunday morning when we were visiting my mother, but by the afternoon, she couldn't do her usual goodbye to us. She couldn't even raise her paw to the doctor who came up to see mum on Monday and just lay on her bed with her head on a pillow.

She has faded so much in the six weeks since we had previously seen her and struggling to get up and go to the loo, despite still eating.

She isn't gone yet and I've been sobbing since I made the decision yesterday evening. I was hoping that she would do what our old cat did and take the decision from us by going in the night, but Mum hasn't called to say that she did, so it's probably today.

It's the crappiest decision in the world.

MassiveKnob · 03/11/2010 11:58

oh Sad Sad for all these sad posts.

abr1de · 03/11/2010 12:03

SOrry to hear this SecretNutella. It's always horrid, that last one-way drive to the vet. We've done it three times in fifteen months and it's vile.

But you are being a lovely, caring, owner.

SecretNutellaFix · 03/11/2010 12:06

My sister and her DP are managers on a dairy farm and they lost their old girl (who was younger than ours!) in August. So they have offered a place beneath the big tree in the garden for her, next to theirs.

No more dogs for Mum though, or for us.

SecretNutellaFix · 03/11/2010 12:28

vet has said see how she does over the weekendSad

she just dragged mum's cardigan out to the kitchen to drop in her waterbowl!!! bloody hell.

wannaBe · 03/11/2010 12:31

It's the hardest decision to have to make, but I don't necessarily agree re if they're still eating then it's not time..

I had to have my 14 year old lab pts in December, and she went eating a doggy treat - true to her character. But she had a massive lump on her side that had become ulserated, which smelled and which had been bleeding, and the day before when I'd taken her to the vet she'd not wanted to walk there, in fact I'd almost taken her home and made the apt then and there.

But the day we had her pts we walked her there, she sniffed the grass on her way, but she struggled. and when we got there she lay down as if to say "I've had enough now."

She'd eaten her breakfast, was still eating healthily in fact, ate some treats while we talked to the vet, and her last treat was to eat a treat, put her head down and slip away. Sad

The vet said to me later that if we'd waited till she wasn't eating the lump would have been ceptic and she would have been in agony.

arfasleep · 03/11/2010 13:44

Would agree with that wannaBee, if you think or know they are in pain &/or things like not being able to walk all have to inform your decision. You do have to look at the whole picture.

Lovesdogsandcats · 03/11/2010 21:44

Have been here 4 times now Sad Truly the worst times of my life.

I think you just know, when the time comes. It is not all about if they are eating still, what if a dog went lame, never to get up again, but was still eating? If food is the ONLY quality of life, I think you need to be digging deeper here for a true understanding of your pet's life quality.

Its hard. The incontinece I see as your problem,not hers, as long as she is not sore from it. Been there, and that in itself is not really a worry...I think the panicking and disorientation is sad, and would question whether it is fair to a dog to let that happen regularly.

I would not be bathing her if she hates it so much. It does make them cold and thats not fair to her - use wipes from Pets at home, or dry shampoo which is a foam that you rub in.

lots to think about, which I am sure you are doing nothing but, at this time. Only you can decide, hope you come to the right decision Sad

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