He has tasted blood.... Help :(

[WhyHavePets]

Ok, this is very identifiable so I have namechanged, if any of you recognise me please don't out me. Bella, yes it is me.

My wonderful, bonkers, over-active dog was staying at a friends house today whilst I work, this happens quite regularly (well, it did), she is very experienced with dogs. They also have guinea-pigs....can you guess what comes next? I can't even bring myself to write it

Obviously I feel terrible. Friend is being fabulous, sad and upset but also realistic and reasonable. Sorry doesn't cover it, there is nothing I can say to make this ok.

The question I am hoping you can help with though is about my dog, he has always had a very high prey drive. He loves to chase small dogs, cats or anything else that moves, never aggressive but definitly focused...as he has now moved on from chasing and into catching do I assume that he will catch anything - including small dogs? Is my only option now to keep him on a lead or muzzled? Is this a behaviour that a behaviourist can help with or is it just too instinctive?

He is in no way aggressive and is simply hunting, I have no concerns about his character....just his ability to control himself around small fluffies. Oh, and to add to my concern we have a cat.

I would be grateful for any suggestions (ideally sensible ones, he is not going to eat my children and I am not going to have him PTS or rehomed - just to get that bit out of the way!)

Yes but hopefully the boy has now learned it is not a good idea to bounce, enthusiastically upto to unknown dogs. So all is good.

Jooly, thank you some very sensible points in there. Can I ask, is basket muzzle the way to go? I always think the soft muzzles are more secure as baskets can be taken off in a second by a determined dog.

Ok - granted [brave smile emoticon]

AFK, in answer to your question, two of our greyhounds have killed cats, one before they belonged to us, and one that came into our back garden.

Soft muzzles are ok for short periods, but I always feel if a dog is exercising the only way they can cool down is to pant, and they can't really pant easily with the mikki muzzles on. I reckon (and this is just me!) that they probably get quite uncomfortable. we pop the soft muzzles on for examining etc, but if they get excited or stressed you see them drooling/ puffing a lot, so I only really like them for short periods.

I suppose with baskets it depends on the shape of the dog's head how easily they get them off- greyhounds never seem to! Also if they are transfixed by prey their first instinct is to chase, so they probably don't think about taking the muzzle off before they go (again, my own theory- sorry!) And baskets do seem, on the whole, to be fairly well tolerated. Hth!

Ah yes, didn't think about panting! Hmm, that is a key point! The problem is that I know my dog will have a basket off in seconds, he wears a headcollar (halti type thing) on the lead and, when he sees his doggy mates, he stops and trys to claw it off as he knows he can't run with it on. I am pretty sure that a basket mussle would get the same treatment!

They also make me nervous as we put one on the dog that really was trying to bite people and she had it off in under a second! She just hooked it and flicked so the side where the strap runs throough snapped. If she had gone off there is no way it would have stopped her!

Actually, I don't "know" he will, what I really mean is I am concerned he will. I suppose the best thing is to get hold of one and try it out!

It's worth a try! You can always try to reinforce the wearing of it with "good" associations- if he can associate it with getting to run/ treats/ praise- whatever method you use for rewarding good behaviour really, maybe he will accept it better.

I agree that some dogs are good at getting them off, so wouldn't recommend them particularly for a really aggressive dog. But your boy sounds more excited than aggressive- it sounds like he got excited by the little scooting burbling things and instinct took over more than that he had his mind fixed on killing. Although I know it's still upsetting to you and your friend.

For some reason, lots of dogs seem to dislike haltis (which is a shame as they are a great method of control, and far gentler than choke chains etc). If yours is one of those, it may be that the basket will annoy him too, although it may be the fact that the halti prevents him taking off that he dislikes, rather than the feeling of it on his face, iyswim!

As I said, possibly worth a try! Good luck!

Finding this thread interesting (and confusing?) as I have dogs (terriers) and an indoor guinea pig and neither of my dogs show aggression towards the guinea pig. They are intrigued by him and will give him a good supervised sniff but they have never tried to hurt him. However they both chase birds, cats and squirrels - although not caught them - why don't they chase the guinea pig? Is it because they know they will be in trouble with me if they do? Admittedly the guinea pig is normally sitting on the sofa with me so isn't moving fast, but when he is on the kitchen floor (always supervised) the dogs don't chase him then either, and he does move fast sometimes.

One dog is always on the lead due to DA and recall issues - he LOVES small dogs (but hates big ones) and the other has been near enough to a cat to kill it but never has - she is more scared of small furries actually once close up despite that she will chase - she's even a bit nervous of the guinea pig. Does this mean that despite them being terriers they do not have a high prey drive (enough to bite), even though they chase, or am I just being naive?

Should I just keep the pig and the dogs away from each other fullstop? Sorry for hijacking your thread OP, it has scared me that this has happened with your dog - as you said he has chased before but never caught, and now he has done this which is horrid - it has worried me. :( Hope you're ok OP btw, must have been a nasty shock. Poor piggy. :(

He is actually fine with the headcollar, puts his head in it when I put it on him etc, he just trys to ditch it as soon as he wants to get to his mates!

You are right, I think, about his instinct kicking in, even when chasing things before he has not tried to bite them, usually he goes after things until they stand still then stops and has a sniff then wanders off!

I will try and get hold of a basket and do a bit of training with it and see how he goes, once I have spoken to the behaviourist I will have a bit of an idea where I am going with it all. I just keep thinking he won't be able to play with his ball on a walk, playing ball with his mates is the best thing in his world
I know that is a small thing really but it just makes me feel guilty!

Lottery, I don't know the answer but I can tell yuo this which may help. My dog is not kept with furries apart from our cat who keeps well away. My friends has the pigs and her own dogs (one same breed as mine). Her dogs live with the pigs day in day out and do not bat an eyelid at them - although they did when younger. I suspect the only real difference is that they have been raised with them and know the rules, either instinctivly or through unconcious signals she has given off when they have been close together and I suspect it could be the same for your dogs.

Mine has not had this "training" simply through lack of exposure early on and has a very high prey drive (which is often the instinct to chase more than to kill) meaning that he was always more likely to do something like this sometime. Of course it is only through conversations tonight that I have put all of this together properly - hindsight!

Obviously I could be wrong but I would guess yours will be fine - of course I would strongly suggest you don't leave them alone together when the pigs are out though - just incase!

Aww- I see what you mean about the ball I think you would probably be safe enough to take it off for a bit of ball chasing if there were no small dogs about. Actually, if he was focussed on his ball, I would be very (very!) surprised if he suddenly decided to run off and maul a passing yorkie, by the sounds of things! Behaviourist might be a good way to go, as they are better placed to assess his actual physical behaviour (I am making lots of guesses/ assumptions over the net, which I suppose could be misleading at worst and dangerous at best!) I'm guessing from what you have said that he is low risk, but always better to be safe than sorry, huh?

And, yeah, Lottery, I would agree with WhyHavePets that it's probably very pertinent that your dogs are very accustomed to the piggly. I have beagles brought up with bunnies and they don't even look at them (although obviously I'd never leave them alone together, yadda yadda!)

bella I didnt know that about dogs, re the 'cloth ears' very interesting. I did however know that about boys, read it in an article!

So it is true "boys are like dogs!"

OP - I hope today after a sleep things are more in perspective and you have a few solutions to try out.

###########

so glad I went to bed early and was up at 6, has taken me ages to read the thread and make head and tail of it. boom tish! [hgrin]

I think it's true across many species, Jax. Will try & remember which book I read it in. I just think it makes a huge difference to owners if they understand that the dog is not purposely ignoring them.

Hope you're okay this morning, OP. I know that yesterday will have shaken you up but I hope all the advice on here has helped. Fwiw my opinion of your dog hasn't changed one bit - he was just in a situation yesterday where he had the opportunity to catch one of those small furries, and he did what many, many dogs would have done.

That DefinitelyNotBella's a daft old bird though, isn't she? [hwink]

she is a funny bird. How dare she have a SOH!

Sigh.

I'm glad someone finds it funny that our dog tried to snatch our newborn out of my DH's arms.

Clearly as the baby wasn't wearing a rabbit suit at the time we must have been mistaken.

The dog had a long history of cat chasing, catching birds etc. She used to get very overexcited and give a really high pitched whine whenever she saw a small furry animal (whether the animal was running or not) and this is exactly what she did when she saw the baby.

The behaviorists take on it was that the two should never be in the same room. So the dog was rehomed.

I am not in any way saying that the OPs dog is the same, just that if there is any worry on the OP's part then perhaps they should trust their instincts and not expose this dog to small animals or humans without using either a muzzle or a lead.

I don't see what's so hilarious about small animals being attacked or babies put in danger, but if that's your sense of humour then that's just you I guess.

Sigh right back at you, wowy.

I was merely trying to illustrate the point, using humour, that most dogs can differentiate between a rabbit and a baby. I was not the only poster to point out that there are several major differences between the two.

I do not know the specifics of your case and therefore cannot and will not comment. I am sure you did the right thing in your situation, but the thrust of your argument appears to be that a dog that has eaten a GP will go on to attack a baby. Many people on here, with far more knowledge than me, have agreed that is not the case. Scaremongering of the sort you are creating costs hundreds of dogs their lives every year.

The point I am making, as I always do, is that if we take the time and trouble to understand a dog's motivations, senses and instincts we can alleviate much suffering - be it on the part of humans, dogs or GPs.

As you were.

"but the thrust of your argument appears to be that a dog that has eaten a GP will go on to attack a baby"

No.

The thrust of my argument is that if the OP has doubts about her dog, which she does, then she needs to be vigilant around other people's animals and children.

But you are determined to misinterpret it.

As you were.

Okay, so who wrote this then, wowy:

'Believe me, your dog might well struggle to know the difference between and human newborn baby and an animal, so I hope you won't have any newborns in your family anytime soon.'

The pixies? The pixies in furry babygros???

Listen, hon, I don't do bunfights. I never go on AIBU. You are clearly still very - understandably - upset about what happened in your case, so I shall leave it at that.

Gotta go look at more piccies of bald dogs. Laters [hwink]

Not wishing to lower the tone of this thread any further though

How does: "your dog might well struggle to know the difference between and human newborn baby and an animal"

Translate into: "a dog that has eaten a GP will go on to attack a baby"

I don't really care if you don't do bunfights. I have as much right to be on this thread sharing my perfectly valid experiences as you do to come on it belittling me and then trying to stop me talking on it.

Tell me you at least smiled at the Hallowe'en labs though [hwink]

OK, haven't read the replis so I may be repeating others.

I have a greyhound, luckily one that doesn't have a very strong prey drive though most greys do. I know that grey rescues will declare some greys are totally not small animal friendly, they believe if a dog has a strong prey drive its not something that can be "cured" by training. Whether this is different for greyhounds as they've spent so many years chasing in races I don't know.

I wanted to make the point though that tehre is a big difference between your cat and someone else's small animals. When I got my dog i already had a cat, the dog accepted the cat and all was good. Then we got a new young cat, now the dog was fine with it but the woman at the greyhound rescue warned me that she may not be. She told me to muzzle her for introductions and watch very closely for a few weeks. She said that the dog may see a known cat as a friend but a strange cat as prey. My dog will chase strange cats in the garden but ignores my cats even if they're in the garden.

We have rabbits and guinepigs but they're in secure runs so no chance for chasing.

I wouldn't worry about your cat so much. But I think if your dog chases other small dogs or animals then when you're out and about he needs to be muzzled.

That's a yes. Isn't it?

Great.

Wasn't trying to stop you talking - honest. And it was you who called me a dick, not the other way round.

See - in my twisted, crazy world, if I am diametrically opposed to someone in terms of opinion, then I can at least make them laugh. Life's too short, hon. Way too short.