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The doghouse

If you're worried about your pet's health, please speak to a vet or qualified professional.

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Original poster

Anyone had a puppy and not crate trained it ?

20 replies

Charliebean · 22/10/2010 20:10

I just wondered as all of our friends seem to have done it and so do all the new puppy owners on MN. We are picking up our new puppy in 5 weeks and were thinking about whether to crate train or not so any advice would be great. Also has anyone kept the crate as their bed for good as opposed to using it as a training aid and then weaning the dog away from it. Thanks everyone.

OP posts:

HeinzSight · 22/10/2010 20:16

DEFINITELY crate train!! We did it with our Golden Retriever 11 yrs ago and are doing it again with our 16 week old cocker spaniel.

There's some ground rules:

NEVER use the crate as punishment, it's a happy place to be.

Feed all the puppy's meals in the crate

Don't have any other beds in the house, only in the crate.

Never release your pup from the crate when they're barking or howling, this reinforces that behaviour. If the howling won't stop, make a noise in the room to distract the pup, when he's quiet let him out, but be quick or he'll start up again!

When allowing pup out of crate, throw in a treat and shut the crate door. This way everytime the pup passes the crate, he'll be itching to get back in there and get to the treat!

Crate training helps with house training too. A dog never wants to toilet in their sleeping area.

HeinzSight · 22/10/2010 20:18

IN answer to your question about weaning off the crate. We did with our Golden, only because the crate was so big. We;re planning on continuing to use this crate as it's much smaller.

larahusky · 22/10/2010 20:22

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

hatwoman · 22/10/2010 20:32

we didn't use a crate - but we did have a kitchen with a tiled floor and access to the garden where he could be confined. our table had metal legs - so non-chewable - and we bought some anti-chew spray for the kitchen units. he's a very good, very biddable, dog and we never had any problems. I'm not sure whether it was down to starting training the day he came home or luck.

minimu1 · 22/10/2010 20:38

Yep years ago I did not use crates for my puppies.

Now I always use crates, the dog loves them, keeps them safe and secure, toilet training is a breeze, so easy to teach the wait command. Puppies as young as 7 weeks learn this is a day or two. Once a dog is used to a crate you can take the dog anywhere and they will settle happily. They tend to travel better as well if used to a crate. I would always use one.

There is no problem in teaching them to use a bed instead of a crate. When the time comes just put the bed inside the crate for a few days and then one day just remove the crate.

I really can see no cons maybe that they are not attractive but that is a small price to pay for a happy contented puppy.

I tend to always have one crate about the house as I foster dogs and seem nearly always to have a puppy about and my dogs will choose the crate everytime over their beds. So you can easily keep it for ever as a bed, as the dog gets older you will probably not have to shut the door. It is very difficult to get my old lab out of it even when the door is open!

hatwoman · 22/10/2010 20:51

I think that the con (of having a crate) - for some people/some dogs - is getting up in the middle of the night or v. early in the morning to let them out to go the loo. the flipside - the con of not having one (and not getting up in the night) is clearing up in the morning. I prefered the latter. it lasted for about 10 days.

Original poster

Charliebean · 23/10/2010 09:38

Thanks everyone. I asked a girl working in the pet shop yesterday and she said that dogs can get very aggressive and territorial over their crates with children ! Has anyone had any experience of this ? She then went on to say that she thinks it is cruel to keep a dog in a cage so i think that she was quite down on the idea anyway. Other than that there only seems to be positive things so I think that we are going to go for it. Wish me luck. I am off crate hunting now !!

OP posts:

HeinzSight · 24/10/2010 09:36

@ the pet shop girl! Dogs LOVE crates, it's their own personal space, it's like a den. Our pup is happiest in his crate with the door shut and completely covered with a blanket. If he can see out he howls! They are NOT cages!

I also agree with the other posters comment about it being easier to travel.

BeerTrixSixSixPotter · 24/10/2010 09:49

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

midori1999 · 24/10/2010 11:51

It would be cruel to keep a dog in a crate, but you wouldn't be doing that if you crate trained.

I have never known a dog to get any more territorial over a crate than any bed, and the dog just sees the crate as a really nice bed.

I only use crates when my dogs are puppies, but we recently decided to put the crate back up for an older puppy we have and he is much more secure since we have done. The downside for us is we have the puppy (lab x staff) and two adult golden retrievers trying to cram themselves into it at the same time and they don't fit... I think it's safe to say they love it...

kid · 24/10/2010 12:22

I have a crate for my pup but haven't trained him completely with it. I have a bed in there for him and have covered it with a big blanket and he goes in there himself. I don't ever lock him in it, but it is his safe place to go.
Ds used to get in there too and our pup never minded at all.

I did intend to use it for car travel but he travels better when not in the crate!

rollerbaby · 24/10/2010 18:58

To be honest, I'm a bit divided on this one. It worked up to a point with our now year old cocker, but he is SO affectionate and clingy (a trait of these dogs) and would not sleep in it overnight after a certain point. We listened to all the advice on here and nearly drove ourselves nuts with sleepless nights from 3 and 4am when he would start howling for nearly 5 weeks. In the end we gave in and accepted that he needed to be closer to us at night. Hey presto, he will sleep until whenever we get up!

He is absolutely accepting of the crate in the car and totally happy in it. Probably cos he knows he is close to us. It just didn't really work for us as a nighttime or when we go out solution. That said, I think it would have been alot harder to house train him and so it definitely played a role in the early days.

minimu1 · 24/10/2010 19:58

Crating a dog in the car is really for safety rather than what they prefer. Dogs have been injured in quite minor accidents if not crated as they have been hit by objects flying around in the car. Especially if in the boot with a dog guard. Crates also stop the dogs being flung around the car and hurting the passengers and driver.

Hi Honeymoo but you did let your little chap out when he whined and let him on your bed Glad you have it sorted though. Have you had the baby yet?

rollerbaby · 24/10/2010 20:05

There was a leetle bit of that at one point yes but he never 100% settled even before that and it just got more and more stressful... I DO believe it can work but I'm not sure 7 months of trying is worth anyones sanity and we really did everything we were supposed to. I do believe some dogs are just happier in them.

Baby due this week so having said all of that I might be back here soon what with 4 of us sharing a room!!

DooinMeCleanin · 24/10/2010 20:09

I never crate trained my first puppy as my parents never did with theirs. I have done with this one though and it does make toilet training easier. And can give you a minutes peace when it all gets too much.

I was also advised by a trainer to crate train my older rescue dog, to help with his peeing on a night. He is quite clever, my little mutt. He won't pee in his crate, but he will cock his leg up the side of the crate and pee out of the crate

Now he is more used to his crate he is much happier and more secure and has stopped peeing in the house. He goes to his crate when he wants a break from the puppy or my dc.

I would absolutely reccommend crate training. My very territoral Terrier doesn't seem to mind all the toys he finds in his bed and he doesn't mind the puppy getting in there, when he is not using it, but she knows to leave when he gets in. It certainly hasn't increased his agression. I'd say it ahs reduced it, as he now has somewhere safe to retreat to when he has had enough.

minimu1 · 24/10/2010 20:10

7 months of trying would definately have made me become a cat lover! I was not getting at you - just reread my post and it may have seemed like that sorry.

Exciting re the baby hope things go well and at least you have had some practice at sleep deprivation!!!!

rollerbaby · 24/10/2010 20:13

No offence taken whatsoever! Our hairy moo is a clever boy and only happy when he's sitting on top of us, which doesn't make for leaving him in a crate very easy! IF we go out he's happy when he can look out the window and sit on our pillows!! :O

I'm really not looking forward to the sleep deprivation!!! Not sure if crying or howling is better... :)

Original poster

Charliebean · 24/10/2010 21:28

Oh dear Honeymoo....we are getting a little cocker spaniel boy lol !! Thanks for all your replies. It is really helpful.

OP posts:

rollerbaby · 24/10/2010 21:40

Ooh good luck charlie! If your boy is anything like ours, you have so much to look forward to! Ours is not aggressive or territorial with anything at all - very very gentle and utterly loving. To the point of wanting to sit on top of you constantly! If you are going to do the crate training just be really consistent and don't break the rules for anything! That was our mistake after a few months and it was impossible to go back then. Despite month or two of trying.

He never hated his crate, just didn't want to be left in it. He now has run of the house all of the time! when we are in and out... But that said, it wouldn't have worked in the begnning pre toilet training and the crate was helpful then.

The one thing we did do and I think this is key to his personality is to introduce him to as many people in our house from day 1. We also carried him out and about in the street and introduced him to dogs early and didn't let him see us worried ever. As a result he is super confident and chilled about everything and everyone and people really remark on his friendly nature.

GOOD LUCK - it's such a lovely time and I miss my tiny wee pup pup. But he is still gorgeous. x

PersonalClown · 24/10/2010 21:47

I'd say it was your choice.
We have a crate in case our 2 dogs decide to get a bit too fighty but we've never 'trained' them as such.

Our staffy had never been in a crate, quite happy to sleep in the armchair, is currently in the crate rearranging the sheets we have as a bed. Apparently I don't put them right!!

It's now kept as the dogs space in case Ds gets a bit much. (8 and ASD)

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