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The doghouse

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MIDORI and VALHALLA????

35 replies

booyhoo · 19/09/2010 16:15

a golden retriever has turned up at my house. i haven left a message on the DW answerphone but they don't open til tomorrow. i will contact both local vets in the morning. what else can i do to try and find owner? also Midori, i know you have some GR contacts in downpatrick (that's where i live) do you know any that are missing one? i haven't been able to see what sex as it was shying away from my hand so didn't want to scare it anymore than necessary. it's in my kitchen now.

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booyhoo · 19/09/2010 16:15

sorry, that should say i HAVE left a message with DW.

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ShinyAndNew · 19/09/2010 16:27

Put messages up on sites like DogLost www.doglost.co.uk/ and try walking the dog through the nearest park, there might be a frantic owner out there looking for him/her.

Can you ask neighbours? It might be a local dog.

booyhoo · 19/09/2010 16:33

i have gone round the neighbours but no joy, we all know each other and no-one knows who might own it. i will put a message up on doglost, thanks, never thought of that. it is a town we live in so pretty likely it is local. going to print off some flyers with photos and take them out on the walk tp put up.

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Vallhala · 19/09/2010 16:35

Poor mite! Thank goodness he/she has found you.

Contact the the DOGLOST website, which is first class, very widely used and supported. I've checked - there is no retriever or retriever type dog advertised on there as lost going back as far as 2006. Hopefully someone will look and/or post a lost ad for this one very soon, it really is worth trying.

Do you have a rescue locally? If so it might be worth calling them and asking if they have a scanner and a willing volunteer today (some do have scanners but not all).

Additionally of course, you can put some posters up - if you have any concerns at all about attracting someone who is not the correct owner, keep it vague - say, perhaps, "Found, golden labrador type dog, medium sized" etc. Anyone who spots it and who has grnuinely lost a GR will call and ask for more information in the hope that you're just a bit dumb on dog breeds but it will deter chancers. Depends what your area is like tbh, as to whether this is necessary (no disrespect intended and from the look of DownPatrick golf course, which is where I got a local postcode for in order to check DogLost, it's lovely where you are!). :)

Otherwise, well, thank god you are holding him til tomorrow and not just throwing him back onto the streeta.

Meantime, make friends with treats/bits of cheese etc and use ut as an excuse to escape more boring chores!

Vallhala · 19/09/2010 16:36

Snap, Shiny, we X posted!

booyhoo · 19/09/2010 16:42

yep, doing posters now, i am worried about chancers but that is good advice to keep it vague. perhaps i shouldn't put the photo on then?

trying to make friends WB thinks it is great and is torturing the poor thing, it seems very timid. it had a go at one of the cats so thats why i am keeping it in teh kitchen.

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midori1999 · 19/09/2010 18:33

Just seen this.

I have emailed my friend in Downpatrick to see if they have heard of anyone who has lost one. I hate to think of it going to the dog warden, having met them I am not keen, tbh. Sad I will try and find out if breed rescue can help out at all if the owner isn't found. I would certainly try to. I am not sure, but I think there may be a legal requirement for it to go to the pound initially? Maybe Val knows?

booyhoo · 19/09/2010 20:04

midori that is my feeling exactly, i have not heard great things about local DW. i will ask them if i can keep her here for the 7 days or whatever it is. if they cannot find a home i will keep here here and keep searching for owner, we already have a GR so i know what commitment that is. i hate the thought of her going to pound and not getting rehomed if not claimed. she is very nervous and there seems to be a few marks on her nose although they don't seem to be causing her any pain. i have no idea of age although at a guess i would say only a few years. her colourig is very similar to WB who is on my profile. she doesn't seem underweight and isn't eating very much at all but drinking lots of water. didn't manage to get out for a walk tonight as i had no one to sit with dcs and i didn't want to risk taking a nervy dog out with them so i will take her out in the morning and ask about. i have asked my neighbour who works in he local asda to ask everyone she sees at work if they know anything. hopefully we will get her back where she belongs.

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booyhoo · 19/09/2010 20:07

oh, I've jsut had an idea. will also post on facebook.

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booyhoo · 19/09/2010 20:23

i have also just put an ad on gumtree. very vague as val sugested.

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TotorosOcarina · 19/09/2010 20:28

glad she is with you! x

booyhoo · 19/09/2010 20:34

she seems to have settled a bit now. still pacing quite a bit but is quickly putting WB in his place!!! definitely used to being in the house as she looks to go out for a wee and keeps getting up on the sofa.

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Vallhala · 19/09/2010 21:39

Here in England you MAY keep the dog instead of sending him to the pound but you MUST by law inform the Dog Warden (I'd advise the Police too, to cover your ass and in the hope that the owner calls them to report his missing dog but you do not have to do so). They can only prevent you from doing so if they have reasonable grounds to believe you will neglect or harm him. IME some councils don't have a clue of this and you may need to be firm with them (I called in a favour from an RSPCA lawyer who put a rocket up my council's arse when they tried to take a very old dog I'd found to the pound, where he'd undoubtedly be PTS. I wouldn't have minded but I had referred them to rescue who had homechecked me as a fosterer too, cheeky feckers!).

If you keep the dog, again here in England, he must stay with you for at least 28 days unless the owner comes forward and you must make all effort to reunite dog and owner. If the owner comes forward you MUST hand over the dog.

It appears to be similar in NI - see [http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:liByuNkY_QEJ:www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/information-and-services/home-and-community/animals-and-pets/dogs/lost-and-stray-dogs.htm+stray+dog+law+northern+ireland&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=firefox-a HERE]]

Unfortunately this info isn't very comprehensive but I'll keep searching for more.

Vallhala · 19/09/2010 21:41

Shall I try that link again?!

Vallhala · 19/09/2010 21:49

Shit!

Looks like I was wrong, sorry. Seems you cannot keep the dog at home as we can here - I'm not 100% so it may be worth checking with the DW AND the legal department of the RSPCA in the morning.

And strays have just 5 days in NI, akin to those in the South. :(

This is from the 1983 Dogs Act for NI:

"Seizure of stray dog
23. ? (1) An officer may seize any dog which is a stray dog.
(2) A dog seized under paragraph (1) may be taken to a dog pound and may be detained by the district council by which the pound is maintained or used under arrangements made under Article 40(a) until the keeper has claimed it and paid all expenses incurred by reason of its detention (including the costs of any veterinary treatment provided under paragraph (5)).
(3) Where?
(a)
any dog seized under paragraph (1) has been detained for 5 days after the seizure and the keeper has not claimed the dog; or
(b)
the keeper has not paid the expenses such as are mentioned in paragraph (2) within such period as the district council may determine, being a period in addition to the 5 days mentioned in sub-paragraph (a);
the council may cause the dog to be sold or to be destroyed in such a manner as to cause as little pain as possible.
(4) No dog seized and detained under this Article shall be given or sold for the purposes of animal experimentation.
(5) The district council detaining a dog under this Article?
(a)
shall cause the dog to be properly fed and maintained; and
(b)
shall arrange for the provision of such veterinary treatment (including humane destruction) as it considers necessary.
(6) The seizure or detention of a dog under this Article shall not render an officer or a district council subject to any liability in respect of the illness, injury or death of the dog unless the illness, injury or death is directly attributable to a negligent act of the council or its servant or agent.
(7) The Department may?
(a)
determine the minimum price at which dogs may be sold under paragraph (3);
(b)
by order, subject to affirmative resolution, vary the number of days for which a dog is to be detained under paragraph (3)(a).
(8) A district council shall keep records of the seizure, and disposal, of stray dogs in its district.
Click to open 24. Finding of unaccompanied dog
Finding of unaccompanied dog
24. ? (1) Any person who finds a dog?
(a)
which is?
(i)
off land owned or occupied by the keeper of the dog and, if the keeper of the dog is a person other than its owner, off land owned or occupied by its owner also; or
(ii)
off other land on which it may be by permission of the owner or occupier of that land; and
(b)
which appears to him to be unaccompanied by any other person;
may detain the dog.
(2) Where a person detains a dog under paragraph (1), he shall, within 24 hours of the finding, give notice to a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary at the nearest police station or to the district council for the district in which he resides.
(3) Where notice of a finding is given to a district council whether under paragraph (2) or by a member of the Royal Ulster Constabulary, an officer shall make arrangements for the collection of the dog from the person detaining it under paragraph (1) and paragraphs (2) to (8) of Article 23 shall apply to any dog collected under this paragraph as they apply to a dog seized under paragraph (1) of that Article."

booyhoo · 19/09/2010 22:34

oh shit. valhalla, i know you cannot advise me on this but i really don't trust the DW wrt rehoming this dog or even, (sad to say) confirming to the owner that it is indeed in the pound. My uncle is a dog breeder, has lots of contacts in the doggy world ( i have also told him about her) and has heard lots of things about the DW selling dogs before the holding period is up. in fact when my previous dog disappeared and i phoned the DW there was a different dog there with my dogs license number. the fact that this dog has no license would make it very easy for her to 'disappear'. If they ring tomorrow i am thinking of telling them she escaped from my garden. i will make every effort myself to locate the owner, i just don't trust the DW.

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Vallhala · 19/09/2010 22:41

I don't blame you in the least TBH. There is the odd DW who is absolutely brilliant (Dartford in Kent's comes to mind, he, Niall, is an active rescuer who fights like buggery in his own time to ensure that EVERY one of his dogs gets into rescue, taking them there himself as well). In the main though I trust them as far as I can throw them.

Scuttlebutter · 19/09/2010 23:29

Blimey. By already identifiying the town you live in, you have effectively identified the DW concerned and accused them of a very serious offence, i.e. theft and fraud. That is an incredibly serious allegation to make, and I'd suggest that if your uncle has any concerns like this, he really should report it to the proper authorities, rather than continue to make these sorts of complaints in general terms, and encouraging family members to scatter them about the internet.

DWs in general have a pretty difficult time of it. Most of them are very poorly paid, overworked and go into this work because they care about dogs - often they are the end of the line for dogs who have nowhere else to go. I would definately agree with Val that the management of stray dog services leaves very much to be desired in many cases, but that is often down to the fact that our Councillors will improve those servies that either have a statutory performance element or have a powerful political element, ie. the Cllr can see votes in making something better. There are quite a few Councils in Wales (which I can speak for, as that's where I live) that have put either no dogs to sleep or very few in the past three years, and sadly some others where far too many are killed. Solving the problems in these areas is not helped by tarring all DWs with the same brush, especially when as individuals they are often the most junior members of an animal protection team. I wouldn't claim that all DWs are angels, but I've met some very good and committed ones, and any DW should be seen in the context of the management and provision (and funding) of services in that area.

And no, I am not a DW and have never worked as one, and do not work in local government.

Bella32 · 20/09/2010 04:02

I agree with Scuttle: if you have concerns about a DW this is not the way to go about it. Please contact the council and/or police.

My own local DW is terrific, and I have no hidden agenda either.

Vallhala · 20/09/2010 08:18

Sorry, I should have been clear (been feeling rough all week, making no sense at all as a result!). Unless things are done very differently in NI to the way they are here in England it won't be the DW who is selling or ordering the killing of dogs, before their 5 days are up or otherwise. That will be the pound manager - and YES, it does happen, it isn't widespread IME but I personally have known it to happen nonetheless. The DW will merely collect the dog, hopefully scan her and failing finding a chip take her to the allocated council pound.

That's where the problem really begins. A hell of a lot of pounds are run alongside profit making organisations by contractors - for example, someone who owns breeding or boarding kennels may well also run the council's pound. They will get paid by the council to care for for each stray or surrendered dog for the statutory 5 (Ireland and NI) or 7 days only. After that, the pound may choose to kill, rehome or send to rescue as it sees fit. It is here, at the pound, that I have experienced dogs being PTS before their 5 or 7 days were up.

As an aside yet on the subject of pounds, there is a lot of bowing down done to "homes" such as Battersea, Manchester and Birmingham "Dogs Homes". These aren't anything but pounds and they kill dogs the same as any other. Manchester "Dogs Home", for example, killed a dog once staff had gone home one Saturday night and having promised them and me that they would keep him until Monday morning, having had my (and staff's) absolute guarantee I would by then have a rescue place and transport sorted for him. I had that place and transport, was up 4 or 5am working to achieve it, but the pound manager killed my dog. The same manager whose pound claims on its website to be no kill.

"My" dog? Oh yes. You see, they all become "mine" until I have them safely in the care of rescue and I work as hard to look after them as I would my own. I failed with that boy in Manchester though. I still remember his name, still have his photograph, still feel the tears as I remember him.

Dog Wardens are a different matter though as I said, and have less control over the dog's life. Its true that I've been involved in dog rescue for long enough to be an utter cynic but nonetheless truly dedicated ones are very still very rare imo. Then again, my version of truly dedicated and Scuttle or Bella's may be very different. In comparison to them I may well be considered an extremist. If you have Facebook, you'll see that this darling man is a PERFECT Dog Warden

Sadly, most aren't like him. Most ime are hardened cynics who accept the huge number of dogs PTS each week in pounds as part of the job, who don't question but do what most people would consider to be "their best". For me, their best isn't good enough.

But the real problems lay with the pounds - and as Scuttle said, that's about politics and funding. Political change and a different, more humane way of thinking is needed, sure, and that has to start with the education of the public who fund the pounds via their taxes... but what about now? Right now, what about that Retriever?

Whilst we wait for polling day thousands of dogs a year continue to die in those pounds... and yes, some do die (or are sold on, and remember without a homecheck or comeback, so its easy money), before their 5 or 7 days are up.

As an 'extremist' in the opinions of some people, I'd back anyone who was willing to take steps to avoid that... and that includes Booy.

Bella32 · 20/09/2010 09:21

Oh, fgs, Val - am just trying to point out that slandering someone on the Internet is not in anyone's interest, least of all any dogs that are losing out as a result of a DW's alleged misdemeanours. Please don't turn that into a case of me caring less about dogs than you do
Hmm

Vallhala · 20/09/2010 09:40

What?! Hmm I wasn't Bella, far from it. If I felt that way I would have said it, surely you must realise that by now.

I'm sorry you took my post as you did but the insult was assumed by you and not implied by me.

I was making the point that I am likely to be in the minority as many would consider me an extremist where they probably wouldn't you or Scuttle, thus my take on the issue is coloured and in fairness to DWs this should be borne in mind here. For the majority, the job the average DW does is about as good as we can expect under the circumstances. Most accept this, as appears to be the case with Scuttle, from what she posted above. I don't. That doesn't mean that you or Scuttle care less, that means that you are - forgive me for making assumptions on someone I have never met here - probably less militant, less extremist, less cynical than I.

Which, by the by, most people would consider to be Not A Bad Thing. So lighten up please and don't assume I'm out to get you. :) Wink

Bella32 · 20/09/2010 09:47

Val - where do you get the idea that what I differ from youin what constitutes a 'good' or a 'bad' dog warden? Where?

All I said - for the 3rd time - is that if you have information about a DW behaving incorrectly then take it to the proper authorities. That's what I was saying

Nor did I say you were 'out to get me' Hmm. Can we just stick to the facts, please?

booyhoo · 20/09/2010 09:56

just to clarify- My uncle has reported his concerns to the police on numerous occasions. he was told that because he had no specific dates or dogs to give them they could not investigate anything as it would just be hearsay. i appreciate what you have said and am now going to ask to have that post deleted as i have no proof of any allegations.

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booyhoo · 20/09/2010 10:01

also, i wasn't by any means tarring all DW with the same brush. my concerns are to do with 1 DW and i don't think you will find anything in my post that mentions all or any other DW. and my uncle has NOT encouraged me to post complaints on the internet. i have posted my concerns of my own free will.

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