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doggie desperate - talk to me about English pointers and dog training

15 replies

Belgrano · 10/09/2010 21:18

I'm desperate for a dog, but I haven't been in a position to actually get one until now.

I am at home with the DCs and they are 3 and 1. Thinking about TTC no. 3 within the next few years. I'm keen on the beautiful English Pointer, but slightly nervous about the exercise requirements - is it really 2 hours a day every day or else the dog becomes nuts...??! Shock gulp.

Also considering whippets and greyhounds. Ideally I'd want a young adult dog either a kiddy-friendly rescue or just an adult who's for sale for a (non-child attacking) reason like owners moving house. I'm a bit worried about training a puppy myself while bringing up DCs and getting it right (all dogs in my parent's family have been quite badly behaved and not particularly obedient so I'm not quite sure I know how best to train one!).

Which brings me to my next question.....what to read/watch to prepare myself. Been watching Dog Whisperer but I know its a bit controversial and there are other ways of training so I suspect I need to find out more and prepare a strategy for training before we get the dog.

So, I'l stop banging on but essentially:

  • The English pointer - good/bad/any tips...
  • Training - recommended methods
  • Any other breed recommendations...
Thanks (so excited and impatientGrin!!)
OP posts:
Vallhala · 10/09/2010 23:58

Pointer - never dealt with one myself but have spoken to knowledgable owners whose views seem to be that they are quite loopy and energetic. I'd suggest that you get in touch with breed rescue and just ask their advice - there is no obligation but if you're as admirably honest with them as you are here they will be able to guide you with equal honesty.

Rescuing - PLEASE go to a reputable rescue and do NOT adopt from a private home unless you know both owner and dog personally and exceptionally well. People LIE! They can lie to rescue when they want to hand in a dog so eff knows what they might tell an individual like you. Only a couple of days ago a lady posted on here who had taken a dog from a private advertiser. The dog soon afterwards went for her neighbour's 3 yo and ended up being put to sleep as a result.

A good rescue will homecheck you and ask lots of questions - this is for YOUR benefit as well as the dog's. We don't care if you have a pile of washing on the side, we don't want to impose and see your bedroom or what's in your bathroom cabinet but we do want to meet ALL the household and other pets, ensure you have a totally secure garden and that the dog is as right for you as you are for him. This may mean that you go in search of a Pointer and end up adopting a Jack Russell! Take it from the woman who was looking for a female Collie cross of about 5 years and ended up with a bloody great long haired 9 yo GSD boy. It was the best decision I ever made! Go to rescue with an open mind and let them guide you, take your time.

Reputable rescue will also neuter, vaccinate, microchip, offer lifetime support and take the dog back if at ANY stage in his life you can't keep him. If they don't, walk away and find one which does. Heaven forbid that you should have a dog and need to rehome him but have nowhere to turn, and trust me, rescue places are hard to find.

Look not just to the big rescues, which often have blanket policies against allowing those with young children to adopt but also independent ones, both local and nationwide, who are often more flexible and will frequently judge on a case by case basis. Some independents only rehome in their local area but many will do so across the country. This is especially the case with breed rescue such as German Shepherd Rescue UK whilst Many Tears is an all breed rescue which rehomes across the country although it's based in Wales.

Oh, and a Greyhound is a great idea and god knows they, along with Staffies, who are another lovely family friendly breed, need even more help than other breeds. For more info on why, see Trudy's website here.

Dog Whisperer - TURN IT OFF! The man is a misguided, if not plain bloody evil so and so who should never be allowed near a dog and is the cause of some of the problems that rescue have to sort out. He#s universally hated by rescue and with good reason!

I'd suggest that you ask local rescue for recommendations on training classes and also get word of mouth advice. Might be worth asking friends and neighbours or dog owning mums at nursery and so on who they recommend.

Other breeds? Well a GSD of course! But I'm biased, there are many who'd say they are not for the novice owner but the 3 I have owned and my former foster boy are/were all perfect family pets. For a novice I'd be inclined to veer away from a Pointer tbh, going on what has been said to me by experienced owners, just as I would Border Collies, who need on the whole a lot of mental stimulation as well as exercise.

On the whole though, it's not about the breed, it's the personality which is important, which is why I recommend that you let rescue guide you and go with an open mind. If you'd like to give your area (county or nearest city/town will do), I'll do my best to suggest a rescue. Although I can't promise I can help, I have contacts in rescue across the UK as I'm a network dog rescuer who gets dogs out of pounds or unsuitable homes and into rescue across England and beyond as well as a volunteer for my local one.

HTH. :)

Belgrano · 11/09/2010 09:26

Oh wow Valhalla thanks so much for that! What an amazing long helpful post.
I will definitely get in touch with rescues,they sound really helpful. I'm in the Bristol/Bath area - any suggestions?
GSD - is that a german shepherd dog? Weirdly for some reason they are the only dogs I am slightly scared of. I think I must have been growled at by one when I was tiny or something.
Staffies - we had one when I was a baby and he was a true nanny dog! He guarded me, helped me up ceaselessly when I fell over staggering about learning to walk and played with me for hours apparently. And was yet so 'staffy' ish (ie. looked fierce and aggressive, as they do, with their thick low set bodies). I, too, feel so sad when I see them being not properly treated. They are lovely dogs.
Anyway, I'll do more research into greyhound whippet rescue and rescue centres in general.
Thank you

OP posts:
ThatDamnDog · 11/09/2010 09:44

Have quickly skimmed through and would say a Pointer isn't going to be ideal for your situation. I work with them a lot and have friends who breed them and they are delightful but really very demanding. They require vast amounts of exercise and many remain boisterous in spite of this, and they don't really settle down and mature until they are 4,5,6 years of age. Thay are fundamentally working dogs and are bred to use their brains and body working hard - not many family homes can meet their needs easily.

Greyhounds - yes, yes, yes! Ideal family pets, but do go via a rehoming organisation so you know what you're getting. Val will keep you right :)

PS Bin the Dog Whisperer, he's a f*ckwit :)

Belgrano · 11/09/2010 09:56

ha ha, thanks! I take your points about Cesar.

Just been perusing t'interweb again, and am getting a bit seduced by the 'golden lab' - that is lab cross golden retriever. They look delicious and sound sweet and fun. Any advice on them?

The 'not letting greyhounds or whippets off the lead ever incase they take off and get run over' thing has turned out to be a deal breaker for my DH. He refuses to get a dog he can't let run around in the park. I must agree but its a shame as whippets/greyhounds do sound lovely.

OP posts:
ThatDamnDog · 11/09/2010 10:06

Belgrano, please get yourself in touch with a good greyhound rescue. It's a fallacy that running dogs have no recall. Yes, many of them have high prey drives and don't recall well, but a lot of them can be surprisingly good. And of course, there are plenty non-grehound/whippet types whose recall is crap! A lot of it comes down to whether you are prepared to train your dog - a dog's recall is only as good as the effort the trainer has put in, just some are easier than others to train!

Don't write off an otherwise ideal candidate on this basis alone - a really good rescue will be able to advise and support you :)

ThatDamnDog · 11/09/2010 10:10

Link to PDF with good background info

Belgrano · 11/09/2010 10:12

Oh good, ok then. I looked at a book which said on no account ever to trust them off leash but if you reckon that is not necessarily the case I will definitely look into them more. I suppose if they haven't ever been raced they may have less ingrained chasing hardwiring...I'll find a Southwest greyhound rescue place and ask them.

Thank you both so much for your experience and help.

OP posts:
Vallhala · 11/09/2010 13:05

She's right, is that ThatDamnDog lady! :)

The obvious rescue for Bath is Bath Cats and Dogs Home. It's a branch of the RSPCA (who I abhor) but is a grand improvement insofar as they make their own policy and are better than the RSPCA per se in the number of healthy dogs they kill. However they may have a blanket ban on rehoming to homes with young children, so give them a call before visiting.

WRT Greyhounds (the majority of whom CAN be let off lead!), although she isn't a rescue can I suggest you email Helen at South West Animal Protection (SWAP). Not only is she an ardent animal rights campaigner but she's also a Greyhound owner (rescued ones of course) and Greys are her special area of expertise. What she doesn't know about them isn't worth knowing! (Likewise Trudy at Greytexploitations, her emails on the website), Helen will undoubtedly be able to refer you to a suitable rescue as she is in the SW. Helen's at - [email protected]

Also, for all breed rescue, there's:

[email protected]

[email protected]

And two more whose **ing addresses I can't for the life of me find atm!

Belgrano · 11/09/2010 13:49

Thank you a million Valhalla. Awesome. Thank you.

OP posts:
WoodRose · 11/09/2010 15:16

Belgrano - I know 2 whippet owners and encounter a few greyhound and lurchers on my dog walks. Both whippets and many of the greyhound/ lurchers are walked off-lead and have excellent recall. This is an area teeming with grey, furry squirrels as well! Neither of the 2 whippet owners were experienced dog owners but both took their whippets to dog obedience classes.

MeMudmagnet · 11/09/2010 18:53

When you're trying to decide which breed would suit you/your lifestyle best. It's best to consider what the breed was originally breed for.

Pointers are breed to work independently, hunting, setting or pointing the game.
So have a lot of stamina and like to think for themselves. I used to have Setters, which are similar. Lots of fun, very sensitive and loving. But need alot of constant, dedicated training and time.

Retrieving breeds tend to be more biddable (sp?) and ime easier to train.

Scuttlebutter · 11/09/2010 22:53

Another grey owner here. If you are in the SW, you can talk to Greyhound Rescue West of England, or South West Sighthounds who are near Bristol, they're a smaller charity but lovely.

yes, some greys don't come off. We've got three and one comes off regularly and is absolutely lovely with other dogs. The other two, not so much, so we go to safe off lead play areas. Even if safe with other dogs, greys respond to visual stimuli very quickly - so most grey owners make sure their dogs are on a lead outside the home, EXCEPT where it's safe to let them off - this is for the dog's own protection, as when they are chasing they are completely oblivious to traffic or other hazards. Lots of dogs chase cats/squirrels/rabbits but greys run fast enough to catch them.

I would recommend classes though, for any dog and am currently doing Kennel Club Canine Good Citizen with one of ours. Apart from the fact he can't sit Grin he's doing very well, and last week, had an excitable little Bichon bouncing up and down on his nose while he was lying on the floor hoping for a sausage. Definately Mr Mellow!

I really wouldn't let that put me off the breed though - there are so many positives. Generally they travel brilliantly, are fabulous on the lead, very gentle, are used to being handled, very healthy, long lived, have a pedigree as long as your arm if that matters to you, look stunning, and are completely addictive. The only downside I can think of is that you never stop at one, and your sofas/beds will be colonised. Please also think of the good you will be doing. Racing greyhounds get a very raw deal, and without going into the heavy stuff here, giving a home to a retired one will be helping in a small way to ensure that these magnificent animals get a fair deal after their working lives are over. I and Val could probably point you at lots of websites that would spell this out for you in very grim detail - it's there if you want to look. If you don't just be aware, and do think positively about this gorgeous breed. Many are only 2 or even younger when they come off the track - so you'll be getting a dog that is past the puppy stage but still with many many happy years ahead. As you can tell, I am passionate about them, and would be happy to answer any queries you might have.

Vallhala · 11/09/2010 23:01

Ha! Gotcha Scuttle! There's a first!

The grim detail is spelled out in the Greytexploitations link I gave above. (Ner!). The owner of GE is Trudy, a lady I have met and who has helped me several times in the past, including transporting my foster grey to his forever home and getting a Shep out of the pound just before Christmas to a holding boarding kennel so that another volunteer could then collect him and being him to me. She even paid his kennel fees "For your Christmas present, because you do so much for the dogs, M". She's lovely, an expert on Greys and the way they are ill treated, abandoned and killed by the racing fraternity.

Scuttlebutter · 11/09/2010 23:13

Nice one Val!!!

Vallhala · 11/09/2010 23:33

Hey, I'm chuffed at my shot in the dark comment, made purely on what the few Pointer owners I have met have said, was pretty accurate in the opinion of those with far more knowledge of the breed than me.

They are energetic and loopy! It was the loopy bit I thought I might be told off about!

:o

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