S**T. Bloody dog jumped into a garden and caught a duck

[whatwasthatagain]

Have a bit of an unruly spaniel and I only let him off the lead when I know that there are no ducks/hens/sheep around. Walking down a disused railway track which I use frequently and he bounded up the banking and stood looking over a garden fence - I knew straight away that something was wrong and started to shout him - but once he has duck in his sights there is no talking to him. He jumped the fence (which was about 2'6") and I heard the distinctive yipping he makes and the quacking of the ducks. I shouted and shouted but to no avail, then heard a man shouting so I climbed the banking (with some difficulty) and saw the man who said that the dog had got one of his ducks. The dog then returned to me (without the duck), I started to apologise to the man, asked if the duck was OK and if there was anything I could do, when a woman appeared through the next door fence and screamed "You could sue her!" pointing at me and then they both disappeared through the fencing and left me still apologising and asking what I could do.

I do not know which house it was as it is a long path. I don't know if the duck survived the attack or not.

Of course I am responsible because my dog should come when he is called, but should people with ducks/hens provide better protection for them when backing onto a public right of way.

And anyone got any advice on how to get my springer to listen to me even when there are ducks/hens around. (Incidentally he has caught them before in the wild.)

He is well behaved the rest of the time - honest.

Oh dear. Poor duck and poor you.

I do think that if you're going to keep chickens/ducks/hippos ect in your garden then it's your responsibility to keep your garden safe for them but that's just my opinion and probably not the law. However, your dog should not have been in his, or anyone elses garden without their permission.

In your position I'd go back and try to work out which house it was (Or Google earth maybe?) and apologise and offer to pay any vet bills.

Until you can be absolutely sure your dog will come back when called then he should probably be on one of those long flexi leads and not off the lead.

Do you take dogs treats out with you? I find my dogs come back a lot quicker if I have biscuits with me.

Our dog used to bark at children when she was a puppy.

We kept her on the lead when we saw any about, but for emergencies we bought a a remote air-spray collar.

It was an absolute life-saver.

If she was heading towards a distant child to bark, you just pressed the 'beep' button, then the 'spray' button which made a little jet of air puff in front of her nose.

It distracted her enough that we were able to recall her.

After a couple of goes, she started responding just to the beep.

It's brilliant for dogs who go into 'the zone' under certain circumstances and can't be recalled.

Suddenly walking her was relaxing, not fraught.

Personally I think the electric shock ones are bloody cruel, but a little puff of air seemed a good compromise to me.

If you can't call back your dog then he really shouldn't be let off the lead. Sorry.

Livestock owners need to ensure their livestock can't escape from their land, but can't be expected to protect their animals from a dog which is not under proper control. The garden was fenced if I'm reading the OP correctly so it's not as if the duck owner was letting them wander all over the place.

Agree with missbehiving. I keep hens, and I do keep my garden secure. However, I would consider it your job to have your dog under control off the lead and to keep it out of my garden.

I don't see any AIBU-style kicking here. OP asked 'but should people with ducks/hens provide better protection for them when backing onto a public right of way' and several people have said no, it is the dog owner's responsibility to keep the dog on a lead if it's not under control.
and fwiw I agree with them....

Do people not take their dogs to obedience classes in this country? When I lived in Germany it seemed to be the normal thing to do if you had a dog.

Training classes! Work on recall, "leave" and a sit/down from a distance command, and as has been said, higher value rewards. You have to make you and what you have more desirable than the object of interest.

I have no idea quite how I've managed it but living in the country we come across a lot of rabbits and pheasants. Chickens too in my previous village. My Lab x and my own GSD (as opposed to my long term foster Shep who hasn't yet met small creatures up close whilst with me) don't chase them. Both dogs know "NO!" (and I can bellow, it helps sometimes!!) and "leave" and will now be told it firmly but quietly as we walk past the little things and just move on past them.

Looking back, I recall taking them nearer to the rabbits on the fields on lead and as the dogs pulled towards them I gave a quick but not harsh tug on the lead/s and the NO and LEAVE commands. Followed up with lots of distraction-inspiring praise and it worked very quickly indeed. As I said, I can now have both dogs off lead and tell them no and they walk on.

My Lab x recently spotted a rabbit I hadn't and bounded towards him though, interested rather than intent on harm imho. I immediately yelled "Max! NO! LEAVE!" and he shamefacedly stopped and came back to me.

Might be worth a try in itself but if you don't think it's working or likely to, then I'd really recommend training classes.

I don't think you can say that the people ar barking. Her dog jumped into their garden and bit one of their pets. They could have been a lot worse.

OP, I would echo training classes but if it is a specific bird problem then maybe a whistle or the air collar might be worth a try.

I know it sounds mad but do you know anyone with fairly robust hens or ducks who would let you be around them with your dog? I used to foster ex-pound dogs when I had a smallholding with loads of things to chase free-ranging and only one dogs out of dozens ever had a problem. They all had an initial lunge and some managed tail feathers but a cockerel and some firm shouting in emergencies worked in the end.

Think it is your job to ensure your dog is under control when out on a walk. It is not the job of the duck owner to turn their back garden into Fort Knox just because of dog owners like you, but they may (sadly) end up having to do so, if they want their poultry to survive. This is exactly the sort of incident that gives all dog owners a bad name. I also can't imagine it would have been much fun for the owner and any young family members to have seen much loved poultry (and people do get very attached to their ducks) being chased and munched by your woof.

As previous posters have said, you need to work on recall training. Given that many spaniels are working dogs and need to handle birds carefully, you might also want to investigate specialist spaniel training? There are lots of good classes out there and many dog trainers will also do one to one sessions with you.

On a side note, electric shock collars are now illegal in Wales - thank goodness.

Just as an aside, re electric shock collars, bloody dreadful things. The rescue I go and help out at has a newish resident who is there because he becomes nasty when he saw his owners, who had taken him on as an older dog (and oddly ONLY his owners) pick up a mobile phone or TV remote. Rescue owner reckons that the dog, who my DC and I have met and played with and who is gorgeous in all other respects, was "trained" by using an electric shock collar.

Needless to say he is going to need a lot of rehabilitation and they can only try and then see IF he is able to be rehomed or if he will be with them for life.

Bedlam, I'm PMSL at your comment, "
Loving the whiff of National stereotype about German dog owners...I envisage some well-trained, groomed orderly beasties.".

If only you could meet my 3 yo GSD, he's a bloody nutter! Not a bad bone in his body nor an ounce of malice but the word "enthusiastic" was made for him! He's very bright and biddable and loves everyone and everything but German self control has passed him by!

@ everyone being amused by my German dog owners comment. It was true! The family I lived with had an adolescent black labrador who had the potential for some very nasty behaviour but went regularly to Hundtrainieren classes. Everyone else (generalises wildly) had massive scary-looking dogs - a lot of German shepherds - that would bound around the local parks until they were recalled by their owners when they would return promptly and docilely. The cycle track to the station went through several parks but I was never once chased by a dog .
Dog training was taken very seriously there.

Re: electric shock (and in fact air/citronella) collars. Valhalla is right, this sort of thing can happen and sadly most of the numpties people who use these collars have no idea of what can go wrong. They just think they are a lazy quick way to solve the problem and will magically stop the dog doing whatever it is they don't want it to do with no effort required on their part except a bit of button pressing.

If dogs do not have a reliable recall in all situations, they should really be kept on a lead and only let off in enclosed/fenced areas from which they cannot escape.

OP, I would invest in some training, spaniels are very trainable. Please do not forget that ducks and hens etc are classed as livestock and hence the owner has a legal right to shoot your dog if it comes onto their property and attacks their birds so you are putting your dog at risk too.

midori - please don't be so rude. I posted because it was my last resort in a stressful situation, and was recommended to me by a professional dog trainer.

This seemed to me to be relevent experience and I posted to help the OP.

A puff of air in front of a dogs nose DOES NOT constitute cruelty.

Do try to post your opinions without resorting to personal insults, there's a dear.

OP - Any news on the duck or the (understandably) irate owner and the nosey neighbour with a direct line to Lawyers For You?

Not all trainers are any good you know, and using an air/spray/shock collar doesn't constitute much training, does it?!

Surely the 'last resort' is keeping the dog on a lead? Certainly an option I would prefer to an sort of spray collar.

Did the 'trainer' make you aware of the potential consequences of using such a collar?

Midori, I am not getting into a dispute with you on the efficacy of these collars. I'm not in the mood for engaging with someone behaving so aggressively.

You are clearly spoiling for a fight. I am not. I'm heavily pregnant and not up for being passive-aggressively referred to as 'lazy' and a 'numpty'.

This is not unreasonable of me.

I'd appreciate an apology for the name-calling.

Hope you find a solution, OP.

Lucky for you being pregnant... I'll assume you don't know my history and aren't deliberately being inflammatory...

I did not refer to you personally or call you any name at any point, unlike you who have directly called me rude and been delibarately patronising. 'there's a dear'... and people wonder why I prefer dogs to humans...

People should not be suggesting the use of spray/shock collar or the use of any aversive on an internet forum. Using such methods can lead to potentially dangerous situations as well as being unpleasant for the dog, so yes, it gets my back up.

Bye then.

Good luck OP.

actually (putting myself in the line of fire) midori did not actually refer to you personally. Go back and re-read the post. If anyone was being rude it was in fact you. But I am merely a observer and do not wish to be drawn into petty arguements. Me personally I think it is cruel, and probably scary for the dog (would you want a puff of air shot up your nose? probably not) I don't even agree with choke chains but that is another arguement .

"People should not be suggesting the use of spray/shock collar or the use of any aversive on an internet forum. Using such methods can lead to potentially dangerous situations as well as being unpleasant for the dog, so yes, it gets my back up."

I support Midori (a VERY experienced lady when it comes to dogs) all the way here.

You won't find such a collar used as a training aid or recommended by 99% of rescues. They see the results too often and have to undo the damage caused by numpties who don't know what they are doing.

Midori... I'm so sorry for the sadness you are going through right now.

Hi All - thanks for all your support and advice. Had to go out last night and been out all morning so not had chance to try and track down the duck owner yet. To clarify a couple of points, my dog did not munch the duck, he is a typical springer in that he has a soft mouth and really just wants to bring things to me - but understandably ducks don't want to be caught and that is when damage can be caused.

Unfortunately he is totally uninterested in food when he is out - there are far too many interesting things to sniff and look at so I have never been able to use food as a training aid in these situations.

I am reluctant to employ artificial training aids, but he does have a choker chain as he pulls relentlessy on the lead (with me) and a controlling headcollar that loops over his nose which he wears when he really cannot be let off the lead at all.

I realise that I let him have too much freedom - he swims in local reservoirs chasing the ducks but I never imagine that he will catch any as they simply fly away. I keep him away from all water during the spring/summer when ducklings etc are around.

I appreciate that he is being put at risk. I live in an area where sheep farmers shoot loose dogs on sight and never let him off near livestock.

I will look into specialist springer training in the hope that can resolve this issue.

Thanks again for all your support, and sorry if this thread has caused any upset.

Bedlambeast - just reread your post. What higher value treats did you use? Also, I do use ball games which he loves and I can keep his attention if I have seen ducks and he hasn't - but once he has spotted them his attention is lost. Plus I like to take him on walks where there is no danger of upsetting the wildlife so that he can have a good run around following scents etc. You must appreciate the sight of a Springer enjoying himself, but obviously not at the expense of any other living thing!

You have my absolute 100% understanding. My Springer, once his nose is to the ground that's it.

I live in the countryside and (under normal circumstances!) gets a monumental amount of exercise - keeps me fit too - and I cannot bear the though of him being restrained and not being allowed to 'spring'.

Like yours, he is well behaved - as a rule - but one extremely memorable day 5 minutes into the walk and trying to impress my mother by showing her how well I have trained him, he returned from some bullrushes with a baby blackbird in his mouth (just gently as you described). Wow, I exclaimed, doesn't do that too often.

Not 5 minutes later we had got to a canal (all off lead, no road walking at all) he jumped in, swam to the steep part of the lock and attempted to get out. Failed, thought, I'll give in then. In I went to get him. After shaking myself dry I explained to all those around that he's not usually like this!

A couple more minutes, in he went again and emerged with a fish! I retreaved it with some embarrassment now and back in it went. Then, with a final attempt to impress (him, not me - by now I had given up) he disappeared up the canal bank and came down with a snake in his mouth. DS freaked out, mum disowned me, I pursuaded him to drop it on the towpath and after a stunned few moments off it slithered.

We went home.

We had only been out 15 minutes.

We've now trained him to come back to 'biscuits'. Seemed to work until he sliced his achilles tendon in a hedge - now in recovery (that's already been aired on another thread).

All in the name of getting fit and losing weight (me not him).

Oh, and we have free range hens. We thought we had trained him to leave well alone until I returned home from a school run one day and found he had gently 'plucked' one. She was shocked so off she went to the vets. Nearly £40 later (she only cost me £8 ffs!) and a warning that she may not last the night decision made that NEVER the twain shall meet again. She did survive (obviously not as shocked as vet thought possibly due to number of times dog had sat on her and her sisters) but she eyes him now in the most menacing way imaginable - you can almost see him quaking in his boots.

So, the moral of this story - get a lap dog