any one watching panorama?

[rainbowfizz]

should teachers be fired if failing?

Generally, yes but it's not that simple.

If a teacher is struggling, they should be given support and manageable targets. However, if they cannot manage these or worse, cannot be bothered, then they should go; Without question!

I have taught with bad teachers and believe me, as teachers we hate it just as much as parents. Ive seen teachers fail 2 or 3 inspections yet are still teaching today.

I've known teachers (can't bring myself to say colleagues) who are very open about their dislike of children and how much they hate the job. Get the fuck out is what I say!

Just to add that I think it's a bigger problem in secondary schools than it is in primary where I teach.

Too many graduates with no idea what to do wandering blindly into teaching simply because it is relatively secure.

I have just turned over because I cannot stand the Newsround-level investigation which Panorama tries to pass off as weighty journalism.

The programme is simply an exercise in paving the way for the punitive measures the tories are about to bring in; the so-called 'license to teach'. IMO.

Well I'm no Tory but the GTC are crap.

...

The programme is a few months old I have seen it before.

Is that woman admitting shes a crap teacher?

Oh shes not a crap teacher...but everyone else is

Its shit.

I have had first hand experience of v v bad teachers(ds1 was signed off school for 2 years cos of this teacher) I admit I hounded her I wrote to everyone and had meetings about her and she eventually took early retirement.

This really irritated me - they didn't define incompetence - if they mean shouting and disorganised paperwork they need to come to my house when I'm trying to roust my 14yo ds in the morning, and see my study.

As for class control - that journo needs to try p5 Friday afternoon Year 11 GCSE RE with one child stoned and the rest bigger and taller than me. If we had adequate sanctions then it might be easier.

Also, define 'failing'. Someone may be a whizz in their subject but horrendous pastorally; or OK academically, but fab on a VA and pastoral level. We can't all be good at everything.

I thought this programme was shocking. I couldn't take the presenter seriously with her flicking her hair around and making eyes all the time. They didn't define incompetence and their stories were very subjective and there was little detail to back up what they were saying. Agree with the poster who described it as Newsround level journalism. It wasn't very factual and it was very one sided.

My DH is a teacher (and a good one at that!) and nothing was said about what the teachers have to put up with on a daily basis - some of the kids are horrendous and teachers take crap from them all day long - personal insults, fighting, refusing to work, disrupting other pupils, and still have to try and deliver a lesson at the same time!

I lost interest initially because those 2 mums seemed to be on almost a witch hunt at the start and even the children looked disinterested.

Do you know what I 'dont get' and maybe some of you can help me get it ....at ds school there are several teachers who just literally cant cope and on these lessons sometimes senior staff are called in to support the teacher and deal with the problems....now having spoken to ds2 its not the children being 'naughty' inded they can be a little on edge wondering when the teacher will 'flip',what sets the teacher off one day (missing pens etc) doesnt the next and its another random reason....now I say yes ok ask for support from your colleagues but how can this be justified almost every lesson? and not just new inexperienced teachers either.

I agree there was nothing about what teachers have to put up with or what 'failing' or 'incompetence' was...what tickled me was that woman who was removed and said she actually was'nt incompetent....teachers have to deal with alot of shit..i wouldn't do it thats for sure..maybe its about support..

Most school children wil tell you which are the 'poor' teachers - whether or not they are incompetent is quite hard to define exactly but in just about any employement situation whether public or private would expect there to be a few percentage who are not up to the job - so 15k out of 500k is not unreasonable.

My DW is also a teacher and having seen NQT come through her school she 'knows' which are not going to be up to the job - maybe with more support they will but some are just not going to make it.

It should be easier for schools to get rid of poor teachers if they have been given adequate support but are not able to raise their game - they should not be moved on and given probably quite good references to move on somewhere else.

If standards are to be raised in education then having a better / more robust system of keeping good teachers and weeding out the poor ones is needed.

Off the top of my head, teachers have three main jobs to do:-

1. Teach
2. Keep the children safe 9am- 3pm
3. Pass on messages to families from the ministry of education/ health/ you name it.

Personally I could do without the govt leaflets in the book bags each week. And keeping the children safe is incidental to having the children with them for teaching. So incompetence for me means not getting the children to make reasonable progress for the year they have them.
I know the government, parents and teaching unions place obstacles in their way, but in the end their main objective has to be teaching. If they can't or won't do that, and re-training doesn't work then they should look for a different job. This isn't how the civil service works but it is how the rest of the economy works.
Instead just 20 teachers have been sacked for incompetence in 40 years! Incredible! Doubtless many more have been forced out some other way, but there are lots left who'd do themselves and everyone else a favour if they tried to find their niche elsewhere.