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Telly addicts

The Chancellors - C4 now

76 replies

CaveMum · 29/03/2010 20:04

Is anyone else watching?

I'm entrigued to see how the US style tv debate works.

OP posts:
HumphreyCobbler · 29/03/2010 20:59

At least they got to talk without a pompous journalist interrupting rudely every two seconds.

Agree thought Osbourne very weak, and I am a Tory leaner.

Birdly · 29/03/2010 21:02

That's it. I love Vince. I'm voting LibDem!

That Tory bloke was just plain scary.

NoodleSquidOodle · 29/03/2010 21:05

George Osborn should not be trusted with the economy - it's scary to even think of that possibility...

gingerblonde · 29/03/2010 21:06

Ooo I DO love a nice debate. Very, very unimpressed by Osborne. Really seemed to have no grasp of public sector spending at all and as for trying to have a go about the gap between rich and poor, HELLO?! Don't see Cameron lining up mega tax increases for the very wealthy... Think I might even dust off my canvassing shoes and go out for Gordon after all.

HumphreyCobbler · 29/03/2010 21:07

He is just such a light weight, snobby sounding dick.

I would prefer Ken Clarke actually.

ahundredtimes · 29/03/2010 21:07

Yes, I thought Vince the most impressive - and he gave the most uncompromising answers didn't he re NHS etc, so he must have been good.

Darling competent though, and sensible sounding I thought.

Osborne, hmm. Not in their league really

MrsCosmopolite · 29/03/2010 21:23

Jumps on the Vince bandwagon, he definately came out on top.

I felt bad for Oz, he seemed out of his depth.

ahundredtimes · 29/03/2010 21:25

Yes, perhaps because he was?

I did appreciate the lack of punch and judy silly fighting though. Was refreshing.

ladypanda · 29/03/2010 21:29

That was it, it was refreshing wasn't it? I think it could even have been improved by not having an audience, at least not one we heard- I find the clap/ don't clap thing distracting. Good to actually just see three grown adults (well 2 and a half!) having a proper debate.

jooseyfruit · 29/03/2010 21:32

agree. the one upmanship of the Today programme for instance does become wearing.
Hearing what the politicians have to say, unfettered, is interesting.

ahundredtimes · 29/03/2010 21:33

lol @ two and a half

Yes, agree. Cable seemed to set out the most realistic vision didn't he? And suddenly him saying it isn't really possible to totally ring fence the NHS - the cuts need to be made carefully across the board, made Cameron's thing about safe guarding the NHS seem unrealistic.

Have long thought child benefit for top earners not necessary.

DorisIsAPinkDragon · 29/03/2010 21:35

Have to say agree with the general tone of the thread

Vince-Fab,suggested areas that would be cut not just some foggy suggestions about efficiency savings!

Alistair Darling- not bad, decent enough bloke but ineffective in sorting out the banks when he had them over a barrel and they needed our money (i.e. pay it back as soon as you can before bonuses (and they can shaft public servants contractual arrangements so why not the bnkers!!!))

I digressed

Osborne - bollocks, bollocks, bollocks, was and still am a floater but quite frankly the thought of him in charge NOOOOOOOOOOO!!
Came across a unsure and lacking in ideas, well any that he was prepared to share! Just wanted to do the schoolboy thing and put the other two down.

Roll on the leaders debate, if Cleggy follows in Vince's (fab) footsteps they may have got my vote, (even as a eurosceptic)!

EightiesChick · 29/03/2010 21:39

Agree almost entirely with Doris above. I am floating at the moment but Vince v good, Darling OK, Osborne floundering.

When is the leaders' debate? Assume it'll also be on C4?

EightiesChick · 29/03/2010 21:41

And yes, it was so refreshing to have an hour of proper grown-up debate, about stuff that matters. [guiltily switches off Pineapple Dance Studio]

AntoinetteOuradi · 29/03/2010 21:44

It's all very well, Vince saying that the very wealthy will pay for everyone else. But IME, the very wealthy will leave the country and let the rest of us live in the poo if they think they are going to have to fund things that don't benefit them and that they don't believe in.

I am, sadly, not in the very wealthy category. But if I were, I would be mightily peeved by Vince.

preggersplayspop · 29/03/2010 21:45

Its quite a scary proposition that George Osborne could be in charge of the public finances, he is very underqualified and didn't come across very well in the debate. Alastair Darling just looked vaguely amused when GO was speaking.

I'm surprised the Conservatives have got GO in the shadow chancellor role, he doesn't have the charm that David Cameron apparently has and doesn't compensate that with gravitas in that role. With the current economic climate I think people want to see an experienced and qualified politician in that role. GO doesn't quite fit the bill.

kittycat37 · 29/03/2010 21:45

Oh dear George O - really really poor performance...incoherent in fact...
NI tax cuts? How????
Ringfencing NHS? At what cost to other areas?
Closing gap between rich and poor? What, by inheritance tax cuts to the wealthiest few whilst abandoning SureStart and tax credits for many?

Thought the other two were ok.

ahundredtimes · 29/03/2010 21:51

I don't think he was just saying that though Antoinette - I thought he gave a petty honest and grave answer re serious cuts everywhere. He didn't say, 'oh we'll get the rich to sort us out.' And not everyone in the top income bracket can leave the country. That's an income of over 120K isn't it? Not sure it that's right, but if it is It's not exactly billionaire row.

gerontius · 29/03/2010 21:54

Presumably people high earners don't live here because of low taxes though? And our income tax for high earners is actually second lowest in the G8 atm.

Crazycatlady · 29/03/2010 22:10

Very surprised to see this has run to just two pages, was expecting to log on to ferocious debate!

Cable was good but he is a media darling and expert PR man, full of soundbites and directness. He will never be Chancellor, so can afford to be brave and bold with his statements, knowing he'll never have to lay in the bed he makes...

Osborne, predictably, didn't come off well. Was hoping he might surprise us. Darling was solid and convincing but has clearly been practicing with a media trainer for months.

Still none the wiser as to who can actually balance the books

Bumperlicious · 29/03/2010 22:10

I agree about this being a grown up debate, without bloody Today show presenters trying to force a sound bite that they can use for their news bulletins.

LadyGaga · 29/03/2010 22:34

Vince is the king
Osborne is wet
Darling is wrong

ChristianaTheSeventh · 29/03/2010 22:38

Message withdrawn

claig · 29/03/2010 22:41

I thought Vince Cable came across best, Osborne was a good second and Darling was a poor third.

Cable had the guts to spell out some of the cuts he would make in the health service, removing the bureaucracy, cutting public sector pensions, cutting back IT projects, cutting ID cards, cutting Trident. Strong stuff on breaking up banking cartels. Good stuff about taking the poor out of tax, forcing banks to lend to businesses and cutting back on the casino capitalism of investment banks. He is the elder statesman with a reputation for having foreseen the crisis. He should stick to the kudos he gains from this and place himself above the normal political fray. He made the mistake of stooping down to the gutter by trying to score a cheap point off the Tories, accusing them of wanting them to get their snouts in the trough to pay off their backers. I think he has been badly advised to try those tactics.

Osborne was impressive. He mentioned the need to make cuts in public sector pensions, remove tax credits for families earning over £50,0000, which were not really helping to fight child poverty, reorganise the health service to remove central control from Whitehall and and to give more power to local doctors and nurses. He made a reassurance that the Tories would increase real spending on the health service every year, since the health service would be one of their top priorities. He emphasised the need to encourage the private sector to create more jobs and growth, and intended to cut taxes on jobs such as national insurance. He also said that he would maintain Labour's 50% tax rate for the rich. He said that relying on the public sector, which is Labour's main way of trying to create growth, would not work and that we needed to encourage foreign investment and needed to start making things in this country again, rather than just borrowing from China to buy Chinese goods. He didn't have the bottle to really spell out where the cuts would fall, unlike Cable. He was good on insisting that we needed to learn from the lessons of the financial crisis and that we now needed to change the way that the financial system is regulated, putting the Bank of England in charge.

Darling was poor. He didn't seem to be well prepared or well briefed. He had a lack of ideas and came up with the usual platitudes that he hoped that his sense of fairness would get us through the coming difficulties and that Labour were aiming to build a fairer, stronger society. When a topic was discussed his tactics were to try and steer the discussion in another direction. When public sector pensions were discussed, he quickly tried to change the subject onto care for the elderly. When NHS cuts were discussed, he tried to convince the audience that the cuts wouldn't be so bad because it all depended on how well the job market was doing at the time, since if things were going well then money freed up from having to pay for unemployment could instead be spent on the NHS. Essentially this meant we had to have faith in his forecasts. Osborne scored a point against Darling when he pointed out that Darling's recent stamp duty help for young people was in fact a policy recommended by Osborne a few years ago. Darling's only reply to this was to make a joke that this was an example of cross-party collaboration. Darling wanted to keep the system of tax credits for families earning over £50,000. Darling was not prepared to change the regulatory system for the financial industry, he said that doing this would take people's eye off the ball. Instead he wanted to wait for international cooperation.

On the financial crisis, Cable said that he had warned of it, but that he did not expect the world system to collapse like a pack of cards. Osborne said that the Tories had warned of the dangers of the lending culture. Darling was again weakest in saying that he underestimated how the connectedness of the international markets would lead to a collapse involving so many institutions if one particular institution began to experience problems. This seems a bit of a poor show, since many economists and pundits had been predicting this scenario based on the loosening of credit over a number of years.

Tashtodd · 29/03/2010 22:49

I said on another thread that Vince is smug and self congratulatory. I foresaw this and I forsaw that. Plays to the crowd far too much. Noted today he had to apologise to the treasury for puffing himself up over the meeting he had recently with them (at his request not theirs - although you would never know that from the way he spun it). He will never be subject to the same level of scrutiny as Darling or Osborne

Having said that he has something to bring to the debate although he will never be Chancellor. There should be a senior role for someone with his business background in public life.

KittyKat: where is the link to the policy that says that the tories will abandon surestart? Tax credits will go for those with an income of over £50,000. I would suggest at that level they are not needed

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