OMG! This twin thing on BBC 1 is killing me.

[HeadFairy]

Watching those twin Chinese girls reunited has made me cry!

'expatinscotland - i think its terrible they waited 6 years to reunite them.

The Americans were loaded, did you see their house?

They could have reunited them earlier.'

Wow, I didn't realise you knew both couples and their exact financial situation.

Tell us more! Do you know the Norwegian couple as well? Are they 'loaded', too?

I thought people who were 'loaded' certainly didn't get up at 6 every morning to go to work.

I do know, however, that Americans only get a fortnight's holiday every year, and many employee's don't allow the employee to take that fortnight off all at once.

Hmm, Sacremento to Oslo. We're talking at least 2 days on either side in transit.

And seeing as you know them so well, both couples, I'm sure you can explain to us exactly why they're so all so stingy they couldn't make yearly long voyages.

That's funny, from what the documentary said, neither couple knew they were identical twins until they'd paid out of their own pockets for DNA tests.

Before that, it was a guess.

But again, seeing at that you know both couples intimately enough to know their financial circumstances, do elaborate.

I hear ya, Kew! I guess I'm coming at it from experience of knowing many people who adopted from foreign countries, people who had biological children or other adoptive children or no children at all prior to becoming parents by adoption, gay couples or singletons who adopted, etc. And from a place where this isn't seen as much else from, 'Cool! May you live happily ever after,' shrug on onto the next topic.

I'm reallly not understanding peoples' attitudes here or this idea that either one of these families should have handed over their child because they found out they were lied to be government officials.

Both couples stated that they would have been happy to adopt both girls had they known they were actually twins at the time.

I don't understand why people are heaping ire on them! They all looked gutted by what happened.

Applauds Kew's 14:51:44 post!

The whole time I was watching all I could think of was how wonderful it was that both these couples wanted so much a) to know the truth for the girls' sakes b) to work so hard for them to know each other.

I can only imagine the pain they feel, too, as parents.

I must admit, watching this last night my DH and I were a bit about the couples keeping the children separate. I think it was just an instinctive reaction when we thought about our own twins, rather than properly thinking about it. That scene at the airport was heartbreaking.

Having read Kewcumber's excellent practical posts on the matter, I can see now that it's not a simple thing to 'put right' as there is no 'right' outcome for this any more. Thank you for taking the time to post all this.

I really hope those parents are getting good support. It must be so hard for them. I wonder if it will deter other potential adopters of Chinese children, knowing the authorities blatantly lie like that?

I think those 'parents' are so selfish for not meeting up for 6 years. Those girls BELONG together. Siblings should never be adopted separately it's just not right.

I also don't feel cross culteral adoptions are in a childs best interests. It would have better for the children to be with other Chinese- Americans or Norweigan-Chinese I think so they could have continued with some culteral identity.

Anyone could see how utterly upset the mothers were when the Norwegian family had to go. It is hardly selfish. Both families are giving their daughters the best life they can. It is the officials who should be shamefaced for separating them in the first place.

Those parents wanted to give the girls a good life, surely you can't berate them for that.

Scattykatty - but it was the Chinese authorities that were in the wrong here, by lying to the parents of both girls.

It seems to me the parents of each twin are making the best of the situation - loving their daughters and hoping to reunite them as often as they can, given the distance involved. I don't see anything selfish in that.

And 'cross cultural adoptions' shouldn't be allowed? Crap. Loving parents over cultural identity any day. We are so much more than our genetics - and if you'd watched the twins programme tonight you'd know that.

So it's better for a child to languish in an orphanage ad infinitum than go home with a parent or parent who loves and cherishes them in a way only a parent could?

Okay.

And again, they did not know they were sisters. The Chinese government split them up, adopted them separately (the adoptions were completed) and it was by chance they ran into each other.

research by the canadian paediatrics institute shows that a tiny proportion of issues raise by transracial adoptions were as a result of the transracial element - I think 4%. The balance were "normal" adoption issues experienced by many adoptees.

There aren't enough chinese ethnic adopters (either within china or elsewhere in the world) to place all the children available. Where adopters have a chinese heritage they are prioritised - quite rightly.

expatinscotland -

well if they had two weeks holiday year then those two weeks should have been meeting up for the twins!!!!!!!!

And yes they did have enough money, did you see the pool in their back garden? It was like a theme park pool. I am not taking about the theme park they also attended in the doc.

The only problem I have with these parents is they waited until the children were 6!

A DNA test is not that expensive and of course they should have had it done as they suspected it from the start.

I may have got this bit wrong but didnt they get the dna test done shortly on their return or was it nearer to when they met?

Hopefully they both have skype so the girls have access to each other all of the time.

I did hear the parents say they would have adopted both and I can understand that neither would have wanted to give up the little girl they had obviously waited so long for but its the contact that I have a issue with and I know I am not the only one.

Both set of parents looked lovely and I think they were honestly shocked at the ease the sisters seemed to connect. I bet on reflection they feel like they should have reacted earlier and brought them together much much sooner. Again YES I believe they could have afforded it, I live in a small flat and surprise surprise I dont work full time so not on a large income but I would have found the money one way or other.

I hate the fact you tried to twist your other post making out I was attacking couples who adopt.

These children have a great life and they are lucky for the parents they were blessed with.

You need to chill out!!!

'Again YES I believe they could have afforded it, I live in a small flat and surprise surprise I dont work full time so not on a large income but I would have found the money one way or other.

I hate the fact you tried to twist your other post making out I was attacking couples who adopt.

These children have a great life and they are lucky for the parents they were blessed with.

You need to chill out!!!'

After you just wrote a huge post spewing out ire about stranger's you don't even know.

Attacking them - only the American ones, it would seem - on that basis that you know exactly what they can and can't afford, or how they should spend what limited time off work they've got.

I just assumed if you're in a position to make such judgments about them, you have intimate knowledge of just how selfish they are.

And you would have done this, you would have done that . . .

Good for you! But you're not the parents of those two girls. You don't know any of them, or the children, for that matter.

But it's somehow okay to label them all kinds of nasty things.

that cutting and pasting thing is really irritating and i have not labelled them lots of nasty things - get a grip! are you one of this people who constantly do that inverted commas sign when speaking because that is even more irritating

you are taking this very personally, you act like you know it all and even if you did you dont need to try and turns peoples opinions to your own.

you are right, i do not know the parents, the children etc but they appeared on a documentary and everyone who watched it will have an opinion on it. you dont need to jump on my back about it and start a hair pulling fight.

this is mumsnet and people discuss! your job is not to go on threads picking and twisting on people's opinion.

i think it was bad the time the parents took to reunite the children and thats about it and so do lots of people. you dont, so fair enough.

move on!

'your job is not to go on threads picking and twisting on people's opinion.

i think it was bad the time the parents took to reunite the children and thats about it and so do lots of people. you dont, so fair enough.

move on!'

Pot.Kettle.Black.

And why not take some of your own advice, then.

Obviously you are taking this incredibly personally because you keep coming on here to post and I must admit, I find that mildly amusing and it's a cold night, so keep it coming .

You think it's bad, okay.

I think it's horrible to single out one particular couple for incredible criticism on the basis that you think they're rich.

Smacks of pretty sour grapes to me, and we're a working poor family.

But hey ho. Keep on carrying on.

The show was about identical twins.

There will be another installment in the series for you to find something else to pick apart, I'm sure.

I presume expat is cutting and pasting so people reading know what shes referring to when she comments on it. Would get a bit confusing otherwise, and isn't it pretty common? And why do you put after making a rude comment? Do you smile at some in RL after calling them irritating.

Anyway - it is interesting that you did reserve your most judgemental comments for the Americans. The norwegians had enough money to fly the whole family to the US and beleive me if they afforded an overseas adoption they ain't living on skid row.

I too was surprised that they didn't arrange for the girls to meet before 6 but without knowing why wasn;t really prepared to judge them for it. ALso (as you said) perhaps they now having seen the girls together regret leaving it, perhaps they felt the girls needed to be emotionally able to deal with it. Many children have post-institutional problems for many years - maybe that was an issue and it wasn;t considered appropriate until they had resolved.

Who knows. But taking potshots at people in a situation most of us wouldn't have the first idea what to do for the best, is (in my very humble opinion) rather smug .

(I won't go into the discussion about why people debate issues - surely it is to change peoples opinions - otherwise its just because you enjoy listening to your own voice)

Ooooh I have missed Mumsnet

Thank you, Kew.

I'm not an adoptive parent. In fact, I wish! If we had the means to do so we'd love to have another child via adoption.

Just because, well, we'd like another child and we'd like that to be through adoption.

We know other people who felt the same. In fact I know a couple, Chinese-American female and white-American male who decided to have their fourth child via adoption and that adoption was of a Chinese-born girl.

No one had any comment to offer other than congratulations on your new daughter.

Yes, they are financially very healthy.

I know two American women, one single and one part of a same-sex couple, who've also become parents of daughters via Chinese adoption.

Again, no more than gifts and showers and 'Congratulations!' and associated maternity leave/parental leave.

So I'm puzzled about the ire surrounding people, regardless of their background or financial circumstances, and how they chose to parent their children just because their child happens to have come to them via foreign adoption.

But this thread has been useful as far as providing insight into how parents like Kew might come up for judgemental, ignorant and quite hurtful comments.

It must be very hurtful, too, for children whose parents became so through adoption, to experience such judgemental opinions at such a young age.

As an immigrant myself, I know it's never so easy as, 'Oh, it's better for me to live in XYZ country. Off I go.'

Well, duh! Lots of people right now are living in utter misery or selling their very skins to organised crime bosses to get to some place they feel is better for themselves and their children.

A little compassion goes a long way.

can you tell me exactly what its called so i can searcha nd watch it please?

It's called The Secret Life of Twins, custy, and you can download it and watch from BBC website.

It focuses particularly on identical twins.

thank you

ok i watched it

and i didn't blub

and i must add - as a benchmark to my soft arse blubbyness - that i cry at x factor - i mean seriously x factor? by my own standards that is weak - but i cant help it.

hat sait - i did not blub at the seperated twins - there is nothing i didn;t see there that i didn;t see after my children have become firm friends on a holiday in france.

sorry guys - kids become best firends in a matter of minutes

it wasn't instantanious - watch it again - it was awkward - the mums were saying " give them a hug" but the american mum eventually had to have a '3 way' hug - becuase it was awkward. you cant expect 2 people who fundementally dont know each other to become firm freinds - despite the commentator saying they became firm friends instantly - the film footage the editors chose to show - confirmed the initial awkwardness.

now after a wek of being,l living and shairing experiences, they didn;t want to part - it was emotional - but no more emotional than leaving a campsite in france with my daughter who has made a firm friend for a week - on departure there is hugging and crying etc.

this happens yr after yr.

hence i am immune

no crying

there absolutley catagorically is an ID twin thing - no doubt - the nature nurture argumetn is absolutley facinating

the sudden coming together of the spereated ID twins and then their seperation - whilst an unfortunate life circumstnace = is not down to a twin thing IMO they din't immediatly bond as the commentator suggested - their depratuture form each others friendship was nothing more nor less than something i have seen with my daughter making new friends and living in their pocket of 10 days in france.

i didn't cry and i am as soft as shite

I am the mother of a daughter adopted from China. Once you have been assessed and approved by social services in the UK (an 18 month process), your paperwork is then checked by the DfES (now DCSF) before being sent to the Chinese Centre for Adoption Affairs which is part of the Chinese government. Many months later the Chinese officials read through your homestudy and, if they are satisfied that you will be a good parent, they match you with a child who is either living in an orphanage or foster care.

You receive a couple of photos of that child and a very brief medical report. That is all you have on which to base your decision whether or not to adopt the child. If you agree then a couple of months later you fly to China and your child is handed to you either at your hotel or in a government office. If you are lucky you get the chance to chat with the director of your child's orphanage or one of her carers. You do not meet her foster family. Then you take your child back to your hotel for the "harmonious period" which is basically the rest of that day and night before returning next morning to officially adopt your child - less than 24 hours after first meeting her.

Once the adoption is notarized she is legally your daughter and the adoption is recognised by both the Chinese and British governments therefore you do not have to re-adopt her when you return to England; she is regarded as being your child as though you had given birth to her. And, trust me, you could not love her more even if you had borne her yourself.

You cannot tap someone else on the shoulder and say "don't our girls look alike, would you like to take her back to the US/Norway/Spain on the off-chance that they might be twins".

This thread has made my teeth itch but I am grateful to expat and Kew for being so rational and wise.

Like Custy I have just watched the programme and I wasn't moved to tears, there was no instant bond between the girls and whilst they became friends I have, like Custy, seen my dd forge similiar friendships whilst on holiday. And she and her best friend are inseparable.

There are millions of children in this world dying of starvation and disease or living with abusive parents, save your tears for them, not two lovely girls who are now part of loving, devoted families.