Did anyone watch the tudors tonight?

[stressed2007]

If so I have a question

me too

what is your question?

what happened to the little boy!

I didn't catch his first name, but I know his surname was Pole. Not much to Google.
After watching it a couple of weeks ago I said to my dh that I felt woefully ignorant about English history, so he got me a book from Amazon covering everything from stonehenge to the 1990's. Bless him

Doesn't have any info about master Pole though.

expat is the MN Tudors expert.

oh wierd - that was my question too - just asked it on another thread in chat. It has really upset me. Been trying to research it on web but nothing specific enough to provide answer.

oh we must get her!

is that her full name?

They were quite vague about it really. Purposely so I think.

She's not on the board at the moment unfortunately.

Whose son was he? I found a reference to his grandmother, but she had six children. It didn't say which was the boys father.

No it didn't - I think that 2 of her sons died in the tower and assume the boy was one of their sons. Can probably work it out from the credits of the programme but I did n't record it. Maybe i player it tomorrow.

Maybe one of us can ask Expat when she is next on - is that her full name?

I believe...and I'm not entirely sure, as most of my knowledge on this era is based partly on David Starkey but mostly on Phillipa Gregory...that young Master Pole was also executed.

He was Montague's son (her eldest son). As I said on another thread, not sure if he was actually that young at the time, or if he died. Would suggest it was added for dramatic effect.

From this site I foud the following on the little boy (if he was as I presume, supposed to be Baron Montagu's son):

"Montague left a son whose existence is not mentioned by peerage historians; he was included with his father in the bill of attainder of 1539, and probably died not many years after in prison."

ExpatinScotland is her posting name. She was the guru for the last series.

I found this on wiki which says "Henry [Pole, 1st Baron Montagu] along with his wife, his wife's brother Edward Neville and other relatives were arrested on a charge of treason by King Henry VIII, though Thomas Cromwell had previously written that they had "little offended save that he is of their kin." Reginald Pole was not among them, as he was in exile at the time, due to his opposition of King Henry's divorce from Catherine of Aragon. They were committed to the Tower of London, and on 9 January 1539 with the exception of Geoffrey Pole, Henry's brother, they were beheaded (Neville had been beheaded earlier on 8 December 1538). Henry Courtenay, 1st Marquess of Exeter was also arrested along with his wife and 11-year old son (his wife would be released two years later while their son spent 15 years in the Tower until his release by Queen Mary on 3 August 1553).
So he may have been the boy but they build it all up fro dramatic effect?

Interesting. What is the link between Henry Courtenay (if it was supposed to be his son)and the Poles though - it is not obvious from this paragraph.

sortd the link out now thanks

IIRC the executioner made a right balls-up of Margaret Pole's beheading too, and more or less mangled her to death .

I think it was for dramatic effect - I found stuff on t'internet that said Henry had "members of Pole's family" arrested and that they were executed, with the exception of his brother Geoffrey (as popmum) says. In the programme, Henry made a big deal of going on about not leaving any saplings to grow into trees, so I suppose that's why they implied that they were going to execute the child too.

I didn't find it as upsetting as two weeks ago when whatsisname went and hanged all the northerners, including a small boy.

On the TV show, they haven't explained just how dangerous the Poles were as rivals to the Tudors. The family tree is all very involved but basically, Richard de la Pole and his brother were the nephews of Richard III and so Henry VII had stolen their very valid claim to the throne. They were the people Henry VIII was most afraid of in the world.

Stressed: Henry Courtenay is another branch of the York family. His mother and Richard de la Pole's mother were sisters and so Courtenay became the Yorkist claimant later on.

His son, Edward Courtenay, spent years and years in prison as Henry VIII was too scared to ever release him. His mother was great friends with Mary I and she released him - he was considered as a husband for her at one point. When Mary ddn't marry him, he tried for Elizabeth and that match was considered as a replacement for the unpopular Mary and Philip.

After an attempted rebellion, he was exiled.

(I'm a History student and Tudors nutball )

I also enjoyed a moment of nerdy glee when Henry mentioned his "nephew" the King of Scotland. The King of Scotland was Henry's nephew but in the show, they balled his two sistes into one and there is no Tudor scottish queen