How the other half live

[MollieO]

Anyone watching?

Anyone else feel slightly uncomfortable with this "relationship" - the generous benefactors and the grateful receivers? I applaud the idea and both families are lovely but, I don't know, it just sits a bit awkwardly with me.

and "lady of the manor"

You are damned if you do and you are damned if you don't.

What precisely is the problem?

I don't feel that the affluent family were in any way condescending, patronising or revelling in being benefactors. Why not take it at face value rather than be sniffy about it? And to be honest who cares what their motives were as long as the outcome was sound (which it was), even if they had base intentions about feeling good about themselves they still improved the lot of the disadvantaged family immeasurably - which is surely what counts.

As it happens the relationship between the poorer older girl and the daughter of the richer folks was genuine and touching.

The self made man had clearly not forgotten his roots and was motivated to help others.

A grip - get one.

I'm just watching this now on 4OD.

I think the families are lovely and the thought behind it is great.

But I'm a bit puzzled over several things. Firstly, will the fact that she's receiving cheques for thousands of pounds not invalidate her benefits claim, specifically income support? I'm a lone parent and have been on benefits in the past - would she not have had to declare the sums?

Furthermore, she said she was willing to take any job, so why couldn't she do something for 16 hours + per week and thus claim tax credits, get better off and provide a few extra things?

Also, in terms of the broken bed, why didn't she apply to the Social Fund or to a wealth of charities that could have helped to fund the purchase of a new bed?

Anyhow, aside from those points, it's a very moving show.

Why were there 7 casting directors involved in the making of this episode? The cynic in me cannot help but be uncomfortable by it all tbh

And what exactly is a 'deserving' family. I live next door to a family where there are 2 bedrooms for 3 adults, 1 teenager, 1 toddler and 1 baby. There is no living room just a fairly large kitchen. They spill out into the garden area when the weather allows. The thing that might them seem less deserving is that the man is on parole and the teenager is a bit of a handful. The police have been around a couple of times. Why wasn't a family like this that was chosen for such a programme. Was there a danger the viewer have been less sympathetic even though there are two kids who could clearly benifet from someones largesse.

I thought the programme was really thought provoking - families both came across as very thoughtful and consdierate of each others positions.
But I would echo drosphila's thoughts- there was an emphasis on the fact that these were the deserving poor - they were poor becasue of debts which were not their fault and therefore the rich family felt ok helping them.

Also would have liked to know more about how the family (or families like them) could have helped themselves as I do think there are funds available/ways and means to help a bit more which don't rely on a benefactor

I would imagine the first family would have been chosen very carefully. Pretty girls, good approach to learning, very likeable. Television programmes are always 'produced' even if they look like reality or documentary tv shows. This series will be very skilfully put together.

I felt miserable watching this. We are desperate to get DS into the school they showed one of the Gumpo girl's at. DS has seen much worse out of his bedroom window than they showed on the programme. When they showed Sharon's budget she has double the amount that we have to spend at the supermarket each week (and for us that amount includes clothes, cleaning products & toiletries). DS also has to wait until mealtime or snacktime if he's hungry, but I didn't think this was so damaging.

DH works really hard, and I thought we were managing to make a life for ourselves. But apparently we're bringing our DS up in poverty. Feel utterly crushed.

But we aren't taking any handouts from anyone, and we won't. Not the state, not some rich family (however nice they are) and not our parents. We'll turn it around ourselves. I just feel so sad that we're obviously perceived as being really poor, and I didn't think of us that way. My father was in a children's home and had malnutrition during WW2 - that's what I think of as being poverty.

Oh dammit.

"...there was an emphasis on the fact that these were the deserving poor"

Well, I think that this idea of the 'deserving poor' actively needs promoting. There is a great deal of prejudice which abounds which would hold that "the poor" are this one amorphous mass of feckless, dissolute wastrels.

Clearly that is not the case, but a lot of middle England thinks, misguidedly, this way.

I think it is quite helpful to challenge Middle England's stereotypes by showing that many people living in relative poverty are decent individuals.

wot hmc said

And drosophilia - I am not ashamed to say that I wouldn't donate thousands of pounds to the family next door to you.

That isn't to say that your neighbours don't require financial help, intervention and guidance (they surely do), but I think that's an area for the state. You cannot expect individual benefactors to cough up dosh for dysfunctional families; which may be used ill advisedly (and so of no direct benefit).

Although dysfunctional may be a bit strong? - but that's the impression you gave in your post. Sorry if I have that wrong

Surely the poor family are going to be burgled now it's been so widely publicised that they have a flat full of nice things?

Good point Nancy66. Since they clearly live near us, I can expect to see that computer go zooming past my window today, clutched to the chest of a hoodie on a bike...

I was a bit worried about that Nancy.

I agree with the fact that because the poor family was so "nice" it was easy to sympathise with them.

Contrast this family with some of those shown on, for example, Jamie Oliver's programme, what was it? Food Nation? No... um... Ministry of Food, that's it.

Seeing those women on Ministry of Food with houses, fitted kitchens, tons of bling, tons of kids, etc etc and complaining made me want to clutch a Daily Mail to my bosom.

I think the programme would have been more interesting if one was asked to help a so-called "undeserving" poor family. Because it would address the issue of helping in the way of raising expectations, not just the amount of money in their pockets.

I was worried too about the Gumpos now, won't the girls have trouble at school too? I really hope not, hope they are getting plenty of support on the emotional side.

What really struck me was that I know quite a few people who live like the Gumpos round here and it's upsetting to think that they may be being held back by what would seem to me to be not large debts and so on. It never occurred to me that someone in a flat like that wouldn't have a table because they couldn't afford it, I would have always assumed it was a home interior / space decision or that they had a fold-down table somewhere I couldn't see. Also I am sad to think that DS might not get invited round a friend's house because the friend didn't feel that their home was nice enough or good enough in some way.

So I suppose what I'm trying to get at is it's made me very aware that child poverty is actually a real thing around us all, if I had met the Gumpos in RL before seeing this programme I would never have thought that they were "poor", just not earning particularly much.

The thing about focusing on the "deserving" poor implies than the remainder don't deserve anything and should remain poor. so where does that leave children of feckless disolute wastrels?
Equally education can be used to pull yourself out of poverty - but only if you have brains to some degree.

My bottom line is that there should be a minimum living standard for people

becstar, i felt the same as you This has really depressed me actually.....

Wish i hadn't watched the programme now!

We don't have a table and chairs either, for one thing our house is tiny. When i first moved in i squashed a table in the lounge but it was right in the middle of the room and it looked ridiculous and it meant we couldn't have a sofa!!!! The kitchen is too small so that is out. I would desire nothing more than room and the money to buy a table and chairs.....

"where does that leave children of feckless disolute wastrels?" it leaves them as our collective responsibility, the state (and its welfare professionals) has a duty of care to intervene. Can't really expect individual benefactors to intervene in these cases - they don't have the skills or insights to deal with the complex family dynamics

startingagain - glad someone else feels the same way. Our kitchen is only big enough for one person at a time to stand in so table & chairs is def. not a consideration! If someone bought us a table & chairs we'd have to sell it, we've no space for it! (And if we sold that swanky table & chairs the Brothertons bought I reckon the proceeds could feed us for 6 months or so...).

I just never thought of my son as growing up in poverty. He's warm enough, has three meals a day, birthday and christmas presents and a holiday in the UK every year at his great uncle's house who lives near the sea. I gave up work and DH works flexibly so that we can spend more time with DS. The way it was portrayed in the programme made me feel awful - the area we live in was portrayed as being a war zone, the school we are hoping DS will get into was classified as 'very international' (wtf do they mean by that???) (note - it's the one we're HOPING for - it's the best one for miles around, our nearest one is terrifying), the amount of money we have to spend each week, the conditions we live in - they portrayed it as being really shocking but I don't see my life that way. It made me feel like I should go back to my miserable job, spend less time with DS, and focus on earning money again. But I know that's not the answer because it made me so unhappy (and unhealthy) before. I don't know, I just feel utterly got at, very unreasonably I know.

The programme uses the comparison to make the make the difference seem vast, it is successful in part because of this manipulation.
When in reality we surround ourselves with people who have the same values as us - whether they live in a council house or country estate.
One thing that leapt out was that there was no real difference in the behaviour or politeness of all the girls, which shows how well the single mother was doing despite not having drama classes or extra beds.

That's true MarshaBrady - the single mother was clearly doing a great job of raising those lovely girls. And in that sense, were they really so disadvantaged - hadn't they got what really counts? (I'm trying to talk myself into feeling better here...). Reading this thread has made me wonder if my friends leave our flat saying 'Oh I feel so sorry for that little boy I had no idea children live like that' I don't surround myself with similar people - some of my friends are very wealthy but it never occurred to me until now that they might pity me. The thought of that makes me feel really uncomfortable.

I doubt it very much. By virtue of a very wealthy extended family, and some friends who are penniless artists with children I feel that the thing that links people are attitudes and once again values, and these are not linked to wealth.
I enjoy seeing the amazing things in a kind of curious way, but there is no way my other friends' children are disadvantaged because their parents are doing a good job and actually spend alot more time with their children. Thinking about it most children want time not stuff.

That's good to hear - I can't bear the thought of people looking at DS and thinking 'that poor little boy'. There are a lot of things DH and I can't afford but I think most of it is totally do-withoutable - alcohol, cigarettes, new furniture, gym membership, drinks from coffee-chain-branded-experience-ripoff places, ready meals, takeaways, new toys for DS when it isn't birthday or Xmas.

We would love a bigger home, but personally I think our home is actually pretty gorgeous in a bohemian kind of way. It's tiny, and crammed to the rafters with paintings and photographs and books. Like I say, DS doesn't get many new toys but he and DH make a new pirate ship together every week (out of cardboard boxes and papier mache - DH did fine art + sculpture for his bachelors so he makes a killer pirate ship!). DS plays with the pirate ship until it falls apart, then it's time to make a new one out of whatever I've gathered over the week. Relatives and friends often buy DS books, and we go to the library at least once a week. We don't claim benefit and we don't take handouts from relatives apart from food parcels.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I've been wandering around happily thinking 'I'm so lucky, I'm so lucky...' because it all feels quite idyllic to me, and then saw aspects of my life on TV held up for pity - in fact not just aspects of my life, but things I'm actually aspiring towards! - and people saying 'oh, that poor family, wouldn't that be awful.' And I thought we were providing a happy childhood. Thanks for the understanding MarshaBrady, it did make me feel better.

becstar, your life actually sounds good to me. I am sure your ds is reaping the benefits of you being around, and your dh sounds great

I am kind of on the other side to you. I am on my own, three kids, not a particularly nice house, very small. Can't afford any nice things, my hoover is broken but i can't afford a new one, that sort of thing!

But i am working, too hard i sometimes think! I am claiming working tax credit, but the more i earn the more they take and the more rent/council tax i have to pay. I can never see a time i can earn much more money as i have gone as far as i can in this job, which i love. I have to leave the kids to fend for themselves alot and i know they miss me, but what is the alternative??

We haven't had a holiday for years and years, i never have any money left each week to save for that sort of thing. I don't get food parcels or handouts from family they just don't seem that kind of people!!

One thing is sure, i am stuck like this until i win the lottery....if i could afford a ticket!!!!!

Like the lady on the programme, life doesn't seem worth living sometimes and if i didn't have to go to work i probably wouldn't get out of bed some days