The Devil's Whore - just caught up with it last night

[LadyGlencoraPalliser]

What does anyone think? Great portrayals of some of the Parliamentarian side, but why do they have to make pantomime villains out of the Royalists? Prince Rupert could have stepped straight out of Blackadder. There were plenty of real atrocities on either side anyway without making up unbelieveable tripe like Harry Fanshawe's execution.

Well I don't think historical accuracy was its strong point, really. Great preformances though. I do love Andrea Riseborough - she's worth watching whatever she's in, IMO.

Very much looking forward to more of Peter Capaldi's Charles I as well.

Yes, she is excellent and I did enjoy it. I got annoyed in the first five minutes though when they showed what was obviously Prince Rupert who (a) shouldn't even have been in the country at that point and (b) had the wrong colour dog. Since anyone who knows the least bit of trivia about the Civil War knows that Prince Rupert had a WHITE poodle I think that was pretty poor.

I enjoyed it. Well written, imo. Thought Angelica was v good.
All a bit "who's who?" to start with (might just have been me), but loved the long hair & filthy men period detail.

I didn't know that. I have a prejudice against the Cavaliers though.

I am more of a Parliamentarian too, Policywonk, but I would rather see both sides depicted fairly. It is actually more interesting if you look at how the conflict polarised the country not in black and white terms but in terms of how difficult many fairminded people found it to choose sides because there was right and wrong on both sides.

Maybe it's me but thought it a bit odd that with all the religious fevour of the time, the two main characters, Sexby and Angelica, were not religious.
Also thought it strange they stated at the beginning that the story was the true story of Angelica when in fact no such person existed. From my sketchy knowledge she is based on a real life person called Lucy Hay. Why not simply say it is based loosely on her?

Yes, Cissy, too much modern sensibility altogether about Angelica imo.

I think it's aiming at entertainment rather than complexity - although I agree that the complexity is part of what makes the Civil War interesting.

Ronan Bennett wrote an article about it in the Grauniad last week (saying, among other things, that it's pretty dodgy historically) - will find link.

here

It's quite interesting. He says that Fanshawe seems to be based in part on Anna Trapnel, a Fifth Monarchist preacher and prophet.

Anna Trapnel was an interesting character but I don't think she resembled Angelica much. There is quite a lot about her in The English Civil War: A People's History by Diane Purkiss, which I thoroughly recommend if you haven't read it.

Thanks - that sounds interesting!

I'm sorry, I never thought I'd say this about a Civil War drama (I love the period) - but I really couldn't care less about any of the characters. After two episodes I've given up. The period detail looks good, lovely boots - but I felt I was watching a Georgette Heyer romp - not something based on fact. As LGP said, it started to lose me when Prince Rupert appeared with a black 'Boy' the poodles instead of a white one - and when he was still on the continent anyway. And some of the plot feels like important bits wound up on the cutting room floor. For example, did I doze off and miss something last week, but at one moment Angelica was talking about defending her house to the death - the next scene, they had surrendered without a fight and her husband was facing death for treason. What happened in between...?

Sorry, but it will have to do a lot more to suck me in. Despite the boots!

I think you lot are too knowledgeable for your own good My Civil War knowledge is around '1066 And All That' level so it's not impeding my enjoyment (haven't seen last night's episode yet though).

Tanee, I was also confused but am hooked.

I know shamefully little about the Civil War.
Can anyone more knowledgeable recommend a comprehensive and readable book to put on my Christmas list?

The Diane Purkiss book which I mentioned further down is excellent, but it is a bit confusing if you don't already know the basic facts. For a more traditional account of what happened when I would recommend this one by Trevor Royle and for a brilliant account of the Parliamentarian side The World Turned Upside Down by Christopher Hill. Then Antonia Fraser's Charles II for a Royalist account to balance it up.

Thank you Lady G, they look great.

I seem to have been obsessed by WWII and Russian history this year. Grim stuff, esp the Stalin years. Could do with a bit of swashbuckling, plus I love all that "nature of man and nature of democracy" stuff.

Any recommendations for books about the Levellers/Diggers, LadyGP?

I've only recently realised that St George's Hill, my local millionaire's estate and home to Sir Cliff, was the Diggers' original patch. It's the most expensive real estate in Surrey. As a friend of mine remarked, it hasn't worked out well for the Diggers

policywonk

Well this one for sure, Policywonk. DH gave it to me for Christmas last year and it is fab - it includes that bit by Thomas Rainsborough that Ronan Bennett quoted in that article you linked to; ''For really I think that the poorest he that is in England has a life to live as the greatest he; and therefore truly sir, I think it's clear, that every man that is to live under a government ought first by his own consent to put himself under that government; and I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that government that he has not had a voice to put himself under.'

I do have to say - despite my misgivings about this, is that I think the 17th century has been woefully neglected in TV drama. I can think of so few over the past 30 odd years - serialisations of 'Woodstock' (about 1971 I think), 'the Children of the New Forest' (the book that got me hooked on the Civil War when I was 8) - 'The First Churchills', 'By the Sword Divided' and - about 35 years after the BBC first promised a series on him, lovely Rufus Sewell as Charles II. There are so many fantastic stories surrounding the 'war without an enemy' and even though I haven't managed to get into this one, I'm really glad it's on - if only so that Policywonk and Finknottle can join us Civil War groupies .

Ok, I shall give episode 3 a go before finally giving up - if only to admire the boots!

i think it looks pretty