The investigation of Lucy Letby on Netflix

[TheRozzers]

Anyone watched it yet? It’s a really excellent documentary with loads of footage of her police interviews.

You see the police asking her questions about those ‘confession’ notes.

I won’t put spoilers in the OP but I’d love to hear what others made of her responses.

Mid way through I thought she’s 💯 guilty but by the end I’m really not sure. A lot points to her being innocent.

I feel for the parents of those babies so much, the uncertainty must be horrendous 😞

they won’t just have a retrial because it’s been distasteful to the public

Well, actually, they will, which is why the involvement of the press is key here.

No, they won’t out and out say ‘yes, OK, we’ll have a retrial to shut the masses up!’ But there comes a point where it is embarrassing to the establishment to ignore a case. This is one of them.

No.

I don’t think they can do that

distasteful to the public definitely not something they would consider

Do you think the Horizon scandal cases would have been referred back to the Appeal Court if there hadn’t been a public outcry?

Well, quite.

It is another worry though as less high profile and less emotive cases are not likely to be reexamined.

This is why irrespective of anything else it’s exposed huge flaws in our judicial systems and that’s something that affects us all.

Wasn’t the public outcry because of the new evidence? and proof of cover ups?

I didn’t tune into that because I found it too upsetting

This isn’t a situation where shouting loudly will change things - if the CCRC says there isn’t new evidence to consider, there isn’t new evidence, end of discussion. Lay discussion out of court by the general public is neither here nor there, and shopping for alternative expert opinion after trial is discouraged.

New evidence is going to be really hard to find because the original trial was so thorough and the time for gathering more direct evidence has passed. The only thing that can be done is to form new opinion on existing evidence, which is what McDonald has engineered, but there’s been no response from CCRC in the ten months or so since his conference. It’s possible that something might come to light in years to come to exonerate Letby but the more time that passes, the less likely this is - and there’s a lot of convictions to overcome.

So there are no forensics
No witnesses to LL doing anythiing wrong
The two times that someone "saw" her doing something wrong, it was either another nurse or been disproved by the wmails tha they wrote.
So the entire verdict is built on the opinion of DE who has had his expertise question by a panel of experts and his integrity called in to question by a judge who said that he makes the "facts" fit his opinion.

And people say that this is a safe conviction.

This isn’t a situation where shouting loudly will change things

In fact it is - high profile cases are always going to have increased scrutiny. This really isn’t going to just go away, regardless of her guilt or otherwise.

Not people court of appeal

probably because it’s not as you are presenting it

That is not what the court of appeal judged it on.

But its also not as simple as you are presenting it as either.

The CCRC can refer on the principle of 'lurking doubt', they have never done this but it's believed that that's because when there is lurking doubt they will find some way to justify the referral the normal way instead.

They have significant powers to search and can even instruct police forces to carry out investigations prosecuted by other police forces.

The new heard of the CCRC has said that in the past they didn't learn from their mistakes and she was going to root out that culture.

Might just be words and maybe they won't have any 'lurking doubt' either but everything about this case has been so crazy so far that anything can happen. This could easily be the case that changes the system.

Currently they are saying it’s a safe conviction

What they are saying is that the processes have been correctly followed.
There is a difference.

Dewi, Welsh form of David. I think he's originally called David. Pronounced a bit closer to Dowie than Dewey but neither sound exactly.

And that there is no new evidence that couldn’t have been presented at trial

it all amounts to them saying it’s safe

and the jury wasn’t misled

Thank you for that

you have a nice manner not personal - makes for good discussion

I’m off to bed 👋 night night all

Thanks - goodnight

Exactly. I think her supporters think they're whipping up a media frenzy but they're just not. Clickbait newspapers are selling a few ads based on some sensational headlines and that's it. Everyone is actually cracking on with their lives and she's locked up forever with no compelling new evidence and no hope of ever being released. Which is exactly what the convicted baby murderer deserves.

You wrong, you can’t predict the future. Also, I think you need to step away from this thread as you seem overly focused on Lucy Letby.

Here's a very interesting article from an Aberystwyth academic on why media campaigns matter in miscarriages of justice. He also points out how different Lucy Letby's case is from most campaigns. Normally, they start with families and friends trying to get the media and experts interested. This one started with experts falling over themselves to speak to the media about their worries concerning the case

https://theconversation.com/why-calls-to-review-lucy-letbys-case-are-so-different-from-other-miscarriage-of-justice-campaigns-239465

You're dead right, we're all just imagining this momentum that's going on....

Thanks but no. But I see I've hit a nerve. I'm not predicting the future I'm stating the facts as they exist according to the law of the land. Whipping up threads on Mumsnet and comment sections in the Daily Mail doesn't change the outcome of the legal system and she's still rotting in prison where she belongs.

Clickbait newspapers? There is a detailed report by 14 world-leading experts refuting every piece of DE's testimony. There are 2 reports by the Royal College of Paediatrics and Child Health, another independent report by Dr Jane Hawden, plus all of the original autopsies, which all say there was no evidence of murder.

The arguments in favour of the original verdict are so lazy. It's too upsetting to the parents, so we shouldn't talk about it. Letby is pretty, that's why people question the soundness of the case, and now we've all been misled by tabloid rags?

If you want to believe the conviction is safe, fine, but if you want to argue with people who don't believe that, at least do them the courtesy of reading Shoo Lee's report and the concerns of other experts speaking out, and explain why you believe DE's version of events is more credible.

Resorting to arguing that we're all just blinded by Letby's beauty is lazy and insulting, and frankly, it makes it appear as though you don't actually have a credible argument.

On the shredder point and leaving lots of potentially incriminating evidence all over her home in boxes and bin bags... I have wondered if put in a similar situation if you would reason you would be absolutely damned if you were caught throwing them out or shredding them. Under that kind of stress and scrutiny, maybe you would just be paralysed by indecision or decide the best thing to do is hold onto them as there was loads evidence pointing to innocence too, it just wasn't called out.