Inside the Jesus Army

[the80sweregreat]

Anyone see this ? Was so sad , those poor people.
Chilling and a difficult watch.
Couldn’t see a thread on it.

Good recommendations @Sowingbees I’d add Wild Wild Country to that list

I’m currently watching a 2001 documentary (that was originally on C4) on You Tube.
Looks like it was recorded from a video so includes adverts from 2001 which is interesting.
Its called True Stories: Battle Centre

They mentioned the Battle centre documentary and played a snippet of it too.

It’s repeatedly said people can understand how others are drawn into a cult but I can’t see it at all. Not even after watching the documentary last week and thinking about it a few times since. Just how does it happen?

@TheSparkling im so glad you got out and I hope your living a happy life with as few scars from the past as possible. Do you still practice a faith or did what you experienced in that Church/cult put you off religion for good?

I can see how some are coerced into it. They are sold an alternative life style , a chance to do something different and with people who will love them. It must sound intoxicating to those who have never fitted in or don’t see family much or are troubled by past events.
Many fell for it , so it obviously worked ( when really all they wanted were slaves to do all the work and their money and to abuse people under the guise of doing ‘ Jesus’s work’ Just so sad)

The leader guy with the comb over gave me the creeps so much, I had to fast forward through all his scenes.

There was a shocking one on Netflix about a breakaway Mormon sect.
It was appalling.
Yet another old man leader/all male elders/all females subservient.

This one had 60 odd wives and would abuse very young girls in private rooms. Vile.

Can't remember the name of it though.

They didn’t mention Nathan’s parents ( he was born in one of the communities) but he didn’t stand much a chance and obviously still traumatized by what happened to him. Evil places run by people who said ‘ we didn’t see anything going on’ ! Just horrible , poor man. I hope he can have some peace now and those poor ladies too.

Anyone who thinks they have the mental strength to stand up to a culture of obedience and conformity with limited access to information just ask how many times have you been able to ask for a pay rise you deserve? Very few of us. And I think you submit bit by bit until the sunk cost appears to outweigh the benefit of leaving. Same psychology of Anglian Home Improvements and timeshare sales people.

I also see cult behaviour on FB groups, people quick to jump to the defense of a hotel, or a celebrity, who become obsessed by it.

Do you think there were drugs in the communion wine/water- in the clips their eyes look glazed.

@TheSparkling I understand that the organisation closed down pretty abruptly. We're a lot of people made homeless, did they lose their jobs etc. ? How did people cope with the ending?

It wasn't just women. The poor guy who was interviewed had suffered dreadful abuse. Stanton also targeted young boys. My heart went out to all of those poor people, they are so damaged and traumatised.

Yes, I mentioned Nathan too below , they didn’t care who they abused :(

Totally agree that most of us have no idea how easily it can happen. I wonder sometimes if thinking we’re ’not the kind of person’ who’d be vulnerable to it creates a false sense of security, when the reality is that these kinds of groups are very, very good at what they do.

There’s a podcast called “Was I In A Cult?”; the hosts have personal experience and they interview people who’ve been through it. It’s a frightening, but eye-opening listen (with a touch of comedy when appropriate). They cover a wide variety of cults and the different techniques used by them, too.

I’ve never been fully taken in by one, but I know others who have, and have seen how easily it can happen. (It wasn’t that I was personally able to resist it by myself, either - just lucky to have enough people who immediately saw it for what it was and were able to get through to me early enough).

@TheSparklingI’m sorry you’ve been through this with this group - the brainwashing is powerful, and I’m so glad to hear you managed to get out.

@nopiesleftinthisvehicle , that docu was called 'Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey' and yes, it was absolutely horrifying.
I remember the Jesus Army presence at festivals I would go to in the late 80s. At Glastonbury I went to a performance by the poet Joolz Denby and she warned the audience in no uncertain terms to stay away from them! I've never forgotten that, and wonder what she knew.

I will try and answer a few questions - firstly regarding myself. No I do not have any relationships with anyone from the JA anymore. When we left we were pretty much ostracised by the whole community. This was pretty standard practice if anyone decided to leave. I was married at the time so the only person I discussed it with was DH. He did have some friendships and people he had kept in touch with who had also left. In some ways it feels very surreal now as I do not have any contact with anyone from the JA so it almost feels like an unhappy dream.
My faith is non existent now. I did go to church for a while when I left but never settled and as I processed my experiences I have become very hardened and cynical about churches and Christianity. I feel sad about this - I had a faith before the cult but it has destroyed it for me. Maybe as time goes on I will recover that part of myself or maybe I won't.

In regards to the collapse of it all. I wasn't in contact and had no idea until well after it happened. I understand that many people had left especially after Noel's death and historic abuse cases started to coming to light. In the end there were very few people left and they voted to close and wind up the trust.
The property and business were sold and the money banked. I understand that some leaders benefitted from "gifts" of residential houses as many had no savings and no income.

Alongside this time the police were investigating and a group of ex members campaigned for financial retribution. This put a stop to the trust being wound up and the redress scheme and high court involvement occurred to oversee the finances.

I will check if I have missed any other questions!

Thank you @HP304 I’ve looked up that podcast and subscribed

What struck me when I was watching this programme were the similarities between the behaviours in the cult and what went on in my marriage. I look back on it and feel like I was under a spell. I always knew I was the stronger one of the two of us, the inner strength, but I did and said things that were beyond my control. Now I'm out of it I can't understand how he did that or how cult leaders and elders do what they do psychologically, the brainwashing.

It was heartbreaking, hearing the survivors' stories. @TheSparkling I too am now much more cynical and untrusting, I suppose if we get one thing from such experiences it's learning how to protect ourselves more but OTOH we have lost whatever joyful 'innocence' we may have had left in our adulthood.

Apologies for not remembering names, the elder who spoke, the one who moved a lot as he spoke, he shook his head with almost everything he said. I've watched many episodes of Faking It where Cliff Lansley says that means they have no confidence in what they're saying. This guy was quite twitchy so I don't know if that negates Cliff's point but the one time he did nod was when he said about people being sexually abused. Did anyone else notice that? Am I making too much of that bit?

The man they interviewed who was an elder , his comment at the end made me mad. He was more or less saying ‘ if that’s what they are saying , i must respect that’ but his whole body language was ‘ I don’t believe them myself’. He was odd , but I suppose living under those conditions for so long had brainwashed him or he just didn’t see anything himself ( so he says)
The ones I did believe were the ones who were abused and lives will never be the same again.

@NebulousSadTimes and @TheSparkling for what it’s worth and with the small amount of information I have to go on I think you sound like to have nearly reached the cautious, skeptical and resilient mid way cafe. I hope that both of you are setting on the path that is signposted confident and content.

Thank you @MurdoMunro . Ha, one of the many reasons my ex claimed he didn't want to be married to me anymore was because I was content 😂🙄. I am so much more confident, content and at peace. Many years down the line and I still relish the calm as I carry my evening meal through knowing that I can eat it in peace and my shoulders will not be up round my ears all evening. Or worse.

I suppose living under those conditions for so long had brainwashed him or he just didn’t see anything himself ( so he says)

@the80sweregreat I would normally say people who haven't experienced something can be blind to it, at the very least not understand it (I've even known one or two who have experienced things not understand it when it's been done to someone else). I do think he knows though but presume it must be very hard for him to even contemplate, let alone accept, that these things were deliberately done to vulnerable people by the people he still is in such thrall to.

the man who keeps saying ‘ I didn’t see anything going on’ isn’t convincing me

Well, nor me but he did seem naive and head in the clouds so maybe he's one of those people who never sees the wrongdoing happening around him as he's so happy with the 'dream'. Not excusing his possible complicity. It's like sticking your fingers in your ears and shouting "la, la, la" really.
Cults attract the lonely and the lost, give them a sense of belonging and purpose, provide a 'family' and leadership. Then once you're in the web....

Any other Jesus Army survivors out there? is another thread on this.Was interested to read the article by former Chron and Echo reporter...I grew up in Northamptonshire - can remember a friend at school,an ardent Baptist, worrying that should join the Bugbrooke chapel (this was 1971 so early days) and arguing against it